Another issue surrounding this is what to do when the character uses the shadows in a fight. Are they simply a part of the character, in the same way summoned creatures are "built" in to the power of certain classes? Technically the character wouldn't get the shadows through any class ability (except of course he is UMDing a scroll), so should they hurt the XP awarded to the characters when they play a role in fighting?
Help me stop my Player!
- Thread starter gabrion
- Start date
Darthjaye
First Post
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Ahh yes, but your missing the obvious. He summons up some shadows to do this for him. Once he becomes human he no longer controls the shadows he conjured up with his ability. And since his plan was for them to do all the killing, he's gonna be in serious trouble.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Darthjaye said:
No, he doesn't. He turns himself into a shadow.
He kills a household, and turns them into shadows. Then, he has those shadows go kill a bunch of other people - much like the spread of a virus.
So long as he maintains direct control over his spawn, he maintains indirect control over their spawn.
Crothian
First Post
Rkhet said:
Well, it is by no means original, this has been discussed before in different ways. I agree let him have his fun, but their are consequances for his action. You shouldn't let him kill have a village and not have anyone notice or care. An army of shadows is going to attract attention. And if the DM rules when he stops being a shadow he loses control of theml; then that's fine to. People really aren't trying to screw him, they are just figureing out how it would logically play out by the rules.
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
gabrion said:
I'm simply flabbergasted that a scroll (or two!) of any 9th-level spell can be so readily purchased.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Let him do it. As this is Ravenloft, this will make him a Domain Lord (read: NPC) in no time.
Beyond that, he will attrackt a lot of "fans" with that, which will be a problem.
And of course, lots of shadows participating in a fight will mean that the fights will be very easy, resulting in next to no XP for the party (the players will hate him for that).
But there's another thing that strikes me as weird: You said this guy read the Monster Manual - during the session - and wants his character to use the knowledge he as a player gained through this reading. Doesn't that sound odd to anyone here?
His character isn't supposed to know this stuff. Let him make a Knowledge(religion) check to know about shadows. Since the character hasn't even seen the things (or so it sounds), the DC will be higher than usual. And then, he'll learn the part about shadows created in this way are under the original shadow's control last, he'll learn everything else first. This will mean that he would have to make a hell of a roll (DC 13 base, plus 5 for every additional bit of info. So first he hears about HD and monster type and subtypes. Then ability scores. Saves. Skill bonuses. Strength Damage. Creates other shadows. These are under the original shadow's control. This should be beyond 40).
When his character rolls and doesn't get the information, tell him that if he tries to metagame to get the character to learn the information, you metagame to let his enemies know about his plans and stop him![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Beyond that, he will attrackt a lot of "fans" with that, which will be a problem.
And of course, lots of shadows participating in a fight will mean that the fights will be very easy, resulting in next to no XP for the party (the players will hate him for that).
But there's another thing that strikes me as weird: You said this guy read the Monster Manual - during the session - and wants his character to use the knowledge he as a player gained through this reading. Doesn't that sound odd to anyone here?
His character isn't supposed to know this stuff. Let him make a Knowledge(religion) check to know about shadows. Since the character hasn't even seen the things (or so it sounds), the DC will be higher than usual. And then, he'll learn the part about shadows created in this way are under the original shadow's control last, he'll learn everything else first. This will mean that he would have to make a hell of a roll (DC 13 base, plus 5 for every additional bit of info. So first he hears about HD and monster type and subtypes. Then ability scores. Saves. Skill bonuses. Strength Damage. Creates other shadows. These are under the original shadow's control. This should be beyond 40).
When his character rolls and doesn't get the information, tell him that if he tries to metagame to get the character to learn the information, you metagame to let his enemies know about his plans and stop him
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
Kae'Yoss said:
Better yet, if the PCs (as opposed the players) have no actual experience with shadows, simply let him assume the shadows are as they are in the MM, but write up a new version of the monster making one minor change to the Create Spawn ability: new shadows aren't controlled by the killer.
I change standard monsters all the time to keep my rather experienced players on their toes. Recently, one player actually pouted when my mummies weren't vulnerable to fire the way the book says they are.
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