Help me stop my Player!

[IcyCool]

No idea how that is relevant there, or even what your 'no' means in that context. Clarifications and answers that take more than two sentences would be nice.

Looking at the section of your post I quoted, you do indeed have two questions in it. Use this quote, and my answer becomes clear, and as relevent as your post.

Some ponderings, on player metagaming:

Say your average player plays a Paladin. The player's motivation, like the rest of his party: kill things and take their lewt. Level up. The Paladin's? Destroy evil, protect good, uphold justice, et cetra. Is the player by default metagaming?

Emphasis mine

The Paladin would have reasons to do either. The first is more likely to succeed, but also more likely to have most of your army killed. But if you don't succeed, the EO might Destroy The World.

The player would want the second option, 'cause the lewt is phat. He declares this openly, but never have his paladin do so, RPer that he is.

Given this scenario, would the player be metagaming if he chose the second path?

Possibly, and to a certain extent, you can't really stop metagaming. It's generally bad, but sometimes it happens. I tend only to get irritable about major metagaming infractions. ("But, the Monster Manual says mummies are vulnerable to fire!" *wail*)

Edit - I just reread your post and see that said paladin player announces that his choice is motivated entirely for a metagame reason. So in answer to your question, yes he is metagaming.

 

[IcyCool]

On the subject of commanding the created Shadows. This ability is part of the Create Spawn ability. As long as you have this ability, you are able to control your spawn. If you aren't currently in a form that has the Create Spawn ability, you don't control them. So create a bunch of Shadows, release them into a town before the shapechange wears off. And anytime you want to control them, Shapechange into a form the with Create Spawn ability and go nuts.

As to whether or not you should get XP for sending your "shadow force" to kill things. The DMG gives guidelines for reducing xp for encounters. I don't believe hiring a bunch of mercenaries qualifies. However, I would have you divide your xp amongst all participants. Also, if you don't take part in the battle personally (i.e. you send your shadows to mow down an army while you sip tea), you get jack for xp.

 

[BvS]

Rule 0 (from 3.0) is not that the DM can create houserules. It's that when the DM does create them, he should (must) inform the players about those houserules. Houserules are fine, just make sure the players are on board with them before using them. The DM does not have the power to create houserules without the players' foreknowledge.

The language suggests to me that rule 0 has been watered down. No longer a rule, in fact. Something that the DM may like to do, instead.

It seems to me that a lot more these days, people have the view that they MUST play by the Rules-As-Written or the D&D Police are going to break down the door and drag them away. I think we need to remember that the rules are supposed to serve as merely a Guide and are there to be interpreted, followed or ignored as any single group sees fit to maximize the fun of their game.

Now of course, the conversation thus far has not excluded this idea, but merely stipulated that if the rules are to be changed, all the players and the GM should agree on the changes beforehand so that the game remains fair. I agree to the extent of rules which directly effect the players, especially when mechanics related to such rules are directly visible to players (such as changing BAB progress or the workings of a Feat for example).

But things such as monster abilities, specific PrCs, etc. do not fall under this category. Indeed, I often keep things such as this secret from my players on purpose, so that the are suprised and mystified when they encounter them. This keeps the air of mystery and excitement in a game that we have all played for many years, and most importantly is More Fun.

Heck, I'll often add 50 hp to a monster who should be dead right on the fly if I think the encounter should last longer because it has been a lot of fun, or the PCs are enjoying using the new abilities they have just gained. Of course this isn't in the rules, but who cares! The PCs get to keep having fun in their victorious combat, and I get to challenge the players that much longer.

It seems the videogame/computergame mentality wins yet again in this generation of D&D :\

 

[Henry]

Check it again, and remember that, in D&D, you only check "targeting info" once, not continually.

Could you point me to the the source of this? I'm having difficulty finding it; on the other hand, I do know that in the case of things such as Feats and Prestige Classes, you have to have the prerequisites in order to use the ability, and this is what I'm reminded of here.

In regards to Create Spawn, I've always been a little leery of the ability, because it's been discussed on these forums many times before in questions on why all D&D campaigns with these critters (or wights, wraiths, etc.) are not all undead-worlds. I prefer to simply say there's a limit to what undead can be created within a time frame, and leave it at that.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Could you point me to the the source of this?

Check the spell targeting rules.

As an example, consider the spell Shillelagh.

Target: One touched nonmagical oak club or quarterstaff

The spell grants the target an enhancement bonus, making it, for the duration of the spell, a magical weapon.

Accordingly, if you continuously check targeting information, the shillelagh spell cannot affect anything, as it constantly makes itself invalid.

 

[Henry]

On the other hand, a supernatural ability is not a spell. It's not a feat or Prestige Class, either, granted, but I thought supernatural abilities did not follow the same rules as spell-like abilities.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

On the other hand, a supernatural ability is not a spell. It's not a feat or Prestige Class, either, granted, but I thought supernatural abilities did not follow the same rules as spell-like abilities.

True - however, unless something specifically overrides certain rules, they generally continue to follow them. And the rules on (SU) abilities say:

Supernatural Abilities: These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic, and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.

 

[IcyCool]

On the other hand, a supernatural ability is not a spell. It's not a feat or Prestige Class, either, granted, but I thought supernatural abilities did not follow the same rules as spell-like abilities.

More specifically, this is a supernatural ability granted by a spell. A spell that has a duration other than intstantaneous or permanent. Therefore, the benefits you receive from this spell should not be permanent.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

More specifically, this is a supernatural ability granted by a spell. A spell that has a duration other than intstantaneous or permanent. Therefore, the benefits you receive from this spell should not be permanent.

So, if I shapechange into, say, an allip (because it's in the beginning of the SRD; I'll come up with better examples as we progress), I gain its (Su) abilities in a non-permanent manner.

Some time after, but before shapechange wears off, someone casts Detect Throughts on me. According to my supernatural abilities:

Madness (Su): Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

He takes 1d4 Wisdom damage.

A few moments later, shapechange wears off. Does the spellcaster who cast Detect Thoughts at me suddenly heal those 1d4 points of Wisdom damage?

 

[IcyCool]

So, if I shapechange into, say, an allip (because it's in the beginning of the SRD; I'll come up with better examples as we progress).

Some time after, but before shapechange wears off, someone casts Detect Throughts on me. According to my supernatural abilities:



He takes 1d4 Wisdom damage.

A few moments later, shapechange wears off. Does the spellcaster who cast Detect Thoughts at me suddenly heal those 1d4 points of Wisdom damage?

I believe taking and healing damage is the exception when it comes to these sorts of spells.

Edit - Acid Fog, Alter Self, Call lightning, etc. are all examples of this. I don't recall any spells having a lasting, permanent effect unless they are listed as having a duration of Instantaneous or Permanent, or it is called out specifically in the text of the spell.