Help me stop my Player!

[Henry]

This makes my head hurt as much as that Antimagic Field debate about a year back. I can see both reasonings from the rules as written, but I have my suspicions the writer of the Shadow entry (Skip Williams and company) didn't have shapechanging undead masters in mind when it was written.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I can see both reasonings from the rules as written, but I have my suspicions the writer of the Shadow entry (Skip Williams and company) didn't have shapechanging undead masters in mind when it was written.

That I absolutely agree with!

 

[IcyCool]

That I absolutely agree with!

Agreed

Oh and Patryn, I'll go ahead and re-state this question once more, as I'm generally interested in the answer:

By your definition, the following (however unlikely), could occur:

Round 1: Shadow reduces Bob to 0 strength, killing him. (3 or 4 is rolled on the 1d4 rounds later)

Round 2: Sam uses a Wish to bring Bob back to life.

Round 3: Sam decides he wants a Shadow minion, so he kills Bob.

Round 4 or Round 5: Bob now rises as a Shadow under Sam's control.

Strength Damage (Su): The touch of a shadow deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living foe. A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. This is a negative energy effect.

Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow becomes a shadow under the control of its killer within 1d4 rounds.

Do you agree that Sam is now Bob the shadow's controller?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Bad example. At Str 0 Bob is "helpless" but not dead (Only Con 0 is dead). If Sam Wishes Bob to full health then he is not at 0 Str for the d4 rounds required to spawn. Killing Bob results in a dead Bob and Sam out several thousand XP.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Bad example. At Str 0 Bob is "helpless" but not dead (Only Con 0 is dead). If Sam Wishes Bob to full health then he is not at 0 Str for the d4 rounds required to spawn. Killing Bob results in a dead Bob and Sam out several thousand XP.

If Bob was reduced to Str 0 by a shadow then he is, in fact, dead. Unless someone creates an AMF around him pdq, he'll become a shadow in 1d4 rounds.

However, to answer IcyCool's question, the resurrection in round 2 would negate the spawning.

 

[IcyCool]

Bad example. At Str 0 Bob is "helpless" but not dead (Only Con 0 is dead). If Sam Wishes Bob to full health then he is not at 0 Str for the d4 rounds required to spawn. Killing Bob results in a dead Bob and Sam out several thousand XP.

A person reduced to 0 Strength by a shadow is killed. A person reduced to 0 Strength by a shadow becomes a shadow under control of its killer within 1d4 rounds. Where does it say that the victim must remain at Strength 0 for all of those rounds?

 

[IcyCool]

However, to answer IcyCool's question, the resurrection in round 2 would negate the spawning.

Howso? Where does it state that? Remember, the only reason the "shadow army" tactic works is because the shadow's Create Spawn ability says "under control of its killer", not "under control of the shadow that killed it", like pretty much all of the other create spawn entries in the MM. Since we are going by what is written in the shadows Create Spawn ability, why doesn't the scenario I posted work?

 

[KerlanRayne]

I was on the side of "When you change back you lose the ability that gives you control of them." Then I saw this:

It is a trait of the spawn, not of the controller.

This got me thinking. What if it's more like the spell Simulacrum? It is an instantaneous effect that creates a free willed creature under your control. Here's a quote:

At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner.

This makes me wonder.

KerlanRayne

 

[Bauglir]

Round 1: Shadow reduces Bob to 0 strength, killing him. (3 or 4 is rolled on the 1d4 rounds later)

Round 2: Sam uses a Wish to bring Bob back to life.

Round 3: Sam decides he wants a Shadow minion, so he kills Bob.

Round 4 or Round 5: Bob now rises as a Shadow under Sam's control.

What happens if we skip step 3?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What happens if we skip step 3?

Drat! I was going to ask that!

To further this point:

Situation A:
1. Shadow A kills Bob via Strength damage.
2. 1d4 rounds pass.

What happens?

Situation B:
1. Shadow A kills Bob via Strength damage.
2. Cleric casts Raise Dead on Bob.
3. 1d4 rounds pass.

What happens?

Situation C:
1. Shadow A kills Bob via Strength damage.
2. Cleric casts Resurrection on Bob.
3. 1d4 rounds pass.

What happens?

Situation D:
1. Shadow A kills Bob via Strength damage.
2. Cleric casts Resurrection on Bob.
3. Vampire B kills Bob via Con damage.
4. 1d4 rounds pass.
5. 1d4 days pass.

What happens?

Situation E:
1. Shadow A kills Bob via Strength damage.
2. Cleric casts Resurrection on Bob.
3. Vampire B kills Bob via negative levels.
4. 1d4 rounds pass.
5. 1d4 days pass.

What happens?