Help me stop the abuse of Polymorph Other

[Wippit Guud]

The lair is pitch black, right?
Goldie won't see a thing.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

People seem to be of the opinion that a fourth level spell is okay for turning your first level character into a dragon that can then go around extorting goods etc from your average peasants.

How do you tell the real thing from the fake? Is the first thing your wizard should do cast dispell magic or run for the hills leaving their heavy goods behind. Best to err on the side of caution if you are the classic mage and leg it.

I like dragons being real and rare. Polymorph other causes this to be undermined.

 

[Wippit Guud]

How do you tell the real thing from the fake?

"I don't feel any fear effects..."

Even if you pass the save, you feel something. A Red Dragon would notice that instantly

 

[Pielorinho]

People seem to be of the opinion that a fourth level spell is okay for turning your first level character into a dragon that can then go around extorting goods etc from your average peasants.

How do you tell the real thing from the fake? Is the first thing your wizard should do cast dispell magic or run for the hills leaving their heavy goods behind. Best to err on the side of caution if you are the classic mage and leg it.

I like dragons being real and rare. Polymorph other causes this to be undermined.

How is a first-level character getting access to a fourth-level spell?

With a third-level spell (fireball), a fifth-level wizard could easily extort goods from your average peasant. The difference is that a wizard with a fireball is a lot less likely to attract the attention of treasure-seeking adventurers than reports of a small dragon in the area.

That said, given the penalties for adopting an unusual form, it'd be completely reasonable to allow anyone (but especially another dragon) a sense motive check to figure out that something's up. And that's just from watching the polymorph-dragon. Once the "gold" dragon forgoes breath weapons or spells, the red dragon will definitely figure out that something's not right.

I will say that I've seen polymorphing into a dragon work well once: when my PC's fire immunity was dispelled in the elemental plane of fire, I thought I was toast. The quick-thinking party sorcerer read a scroll of polymorph and turned me into a red dragon, however; since in 3.5 you gain the type and subtype of your new form, I gained the fire subtype, and was immune to fire again .

Daniel

 

[dcollins]

Under 2nd edition the polymorph was more reasonable as you did not gain the attacks or armour of the creature you turned into, plus there was the risk of losing your mind and becoming a dragon.

Polymorph other is over the top for a 4th level spell. Basically make 1st level volunteer into 13th level in an instant.

Another thing that made this unworkable as a crazy buff spell in previous editions (thinking 1st Ed. AD&D) is the Con check you need to make on each change, or you died. 3rd Ed.'s removal of many risks like that made for a number of broken effects.

Hence my House Rule:
Any target of a stone to flesh, polymorph other, or raise dead effect must make a Fortitude save at DC 12 or die. No spells or items affect this save. For raise dead, the death is permanent. (This rule includes similar effects like polymorph any object, resurrection, true resurrection, etc.)

Note that this AD&D conversion solves (1) polymorph, (2) raise dead, and (3) makes stone to flesh more survivable (Fort save already in there -- increase all to DC 15 if you prefer).

 

[Grog]

Using PHB 3.0 rules

The new form can range in size from Diminutive to one size larger than the subject's normal form.

So the biggest he can become is a Juvenile (Large) dragon, with a Str of 29 and AC 25.

Don't forget about the other limitation - the new form can't have more HD than the wizard's caster level, maximum 15 HD. So the best gold dragon he could become would be a Young dragon (14 HD). Str 25 and AC 22. He'd have an attack bouns of +8, meaning he most likely could only hit the red dragon on a natural 20. Plus, you already mentioned the fact that he'll only have about 10 hit points or so. And this is with a 14th level wizard casting the spell - any lower and it gets even worse.

All this follower will be is cannon fodder, and very poor cannon fodder at that, given that he's likely to drop after the first hit from the red dragon. If the red dragon has cleave, he won't even slow it down. There's no problem with the spell at all, at least in this particular usage.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

My main gripe is that a complicit receipriant of the spell goes from 1 attack at +1 with AC15 (Assumes chain) to 4 attacks at +10 with AC25. Plus from move 30 to 60 and fly 200. Also it mentions Constitution as being one of the gains, so they get +5 from con.

To get that kind of upgrade would take loads of bulls strength, fly spell, loads of hastes etc and all from one spell. Something's cocked up here!

 

[MerakSpielman]

Just follow the exact wording of the spell and don't give them any abilities they're not entitled to, let them become a dragon that is over the size/HD limit, etc... I think they'll find it wasn't as wonderful a show-stopper as they envisioned.

 

[Tom McCafferty]

Don't forget about the other limitation - the new form can't have more HD than the wizard's caster level, maximum 15 HD. So the best gold dragon he could become would be a Young dragon (14 HD). Str 25 and AC 22. He'd have an attack bouns of +8, meaning he most likely could only hit the red dragon on a natural 20. Plus, you already mentioned the fact that he'll only have about 10 hit points or so. And this is with a 14th level wizard casting the spell - any lower and it gets even worse.

All this follower will be is cannon fodder, and very poor cannon fodder at that, given that he's likely to drop after the first hit from the red dragon. If the red dragon has cleave, he won't even slow it down. There's no problem with the spell at all, at least in this particular usage.

I don't see any refrence in the spell to a HD limit. Where does this come from?

 

[dcollins]

The HD limit is in 3.5.

A number of people are missing that this thread is 3.0-specific.