Help me understand the Artificer's crafting and use of items

[Rel]

For example, an artificer only needs to be 5th level to make a flame strike scroll, and have a have a 14 WIS to cast it.

Actually, based on what Patryn posted, he doesn't need the Wis does he? He needs a 14 Int, right?

Quick note - I had a player who created an item in-game that boosted his UMD checks by +10, because he complained about the concern of blowing his checks 40% of the time. I let him do this, and I have to say --- DO NOT LET YOUR PLAYERS DO THIS. Even at 10,000 gp cost, it is the most abusive item he owns, because combined with his other bonuses he never fails a check. It's only by ensuring that there were no item creators in Sharn above 11th level that I curbed his search of items disproportionately powerful to use.

Noted.

 

[Rel]

Also remember that, because they are neither arcane nor divine, no one else can use them, either.

I think I may have mentioned this, but it bears repeating.

So, when your artificer creates a scroll of CLW, the cleric cannot use it. Neither can the bard. The rogue with UMD, however, can *try* to use it (as can another artificer).

As you typed this we were swapping a flurry of e-mails about this very thing. He's a bit annoyed but hopefully he'll see the need for these restrictions.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

As you typed this we were swapping a flurry of e-mails about this very thing. He's a bit annoyed but hopefully he'll see the need for these restrictions.

Of course, you can have the artificer help the cleric create scrolls. In which case, the cleric is the creator, spends the XP, and you have a divine scroll of CLW on your hands.

The artificer can use the divine scroll, of course, but then he would need to emulate an appropriate Wisdom score as well as spellcasting ability.

 

[Rel]

Of course, you can have the artificer help the cleric create scrolls. In which case, the cleric is the creator, spends the XP, and you have a divine scroll of CLW on your hands.

The artificer can use the divine scroll, of course, but then he would need to emulate an appropriate Wisdom score as well as spellcasting ability.

Wait a second here. I was under the impression that you COULD colaborate on making magic items BUT that the person who had the feat had to always pay the XP and that the item (Scroll in this case) would be of their "type" (i.e. Arcane, Divine, Bardish).

Am I wrong about this? Can you cite me a rule?

 

[Henry]

There are a series of "rules of the game" articles on WotC's site that address magical item creation, that may help here.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg

From Part 1 of the 7-part series by Skip Williams:

When two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator. Use the designated creator's caster level for any aspect of the item creation process that uses the creator's caster level. The designated creator pays the XP required to make the item. The rules don't say so, but it's best to assume that when a character provides a prerequisite spell that has an XP component he or she also pays the XP costs for that spell.

Also, from the SRD:

Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level. A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spelllike ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator
must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary. If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item. Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).
When two spells at the end of a list are separated by “or,” one of those spells is required in addition to every other spell mentioned prior to the last two.

Apparently, it doesn't HAVE to be the person with the feat - it just has to be ONE of them. Incidentally, that person pays the XP cost, meaning that anyone who can supply some of the prereq's can be a "creator." This has some interesting implications for spreading the XP loss around a group.

 

[Henry]

Oh, one more thing that will drive you nuts if you don't know it's there -- in the Errata for the DMG 3.5, there's a statement that "Caster Level" should NOT be considered a prerequisite; otherwise, you get some very contradictory statements on creating some items, like swords of quickness or pearls of power, etc.

Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster
Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Wait a second here. I was under the impression that you COULD colaborate on making magic items BUT that the person who had the feat had to always pay the XP and that the item (Scroll in this case) would be of their "type" (i.e. Arcane, Divine, Bardish).

Am I wrong about this? Can you cite me a rule?

The creator of a magic item is the person who sets the caster level of an item as well as the person who pays the XP cost. They are also the person who sets whether certain items (like scrolls) are divine, arcane, or artificial. ( ) Note that "bardish" is not a separate category from arcane.

Everything else about an item comes down to prerequisites. Specifically:

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

And:

Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).

The proper item creation feat is a prerequisite, just like any other aspect of the item. Thus, a vanilla magic sword requires the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, a caster level of 3x the Enhancement bonus, and a masterwork sword.

A Cleric 6 can provide the caster level requirement for a +2 sword, so long as he is working with someone who knows the CMAA feat. If he does provide the caster level, he is the item's creator.

The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price, with a minimum of at least one day. Potions are an exception to this rule; they always take just one day to brew. The character must spend the gold and XP at the beginning of the construction process.

So, for any given scroll, the prerequisites are Scribe Scroll and the spell to be scribed. Generally, the same person who knows the spell is doing the scribing, so the issue never comes up.

In the event that duties are going to be shared, however, one character needs to be designated as the creator. The creator is responsible for paying the GP and XP costs to create the item, as well as for setting the caster level of the item.

For instance, take a scroll of Cure Light Wounds. It has two prerequisites: Scribe Scroll, cure light wounds

We have a Wizard 3 helping a Cleric 2 to scribe it. Either the Wizard or the Cleric may be designated as the creator.

If it is the Wizard, the caster level may be set between 1 and 3 (the Wizard's max), and he will be charged (1 * CL) experience points. The scroll, when finished, will be an Arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds - useless to the Wizard and the Cleric, but usable by any bard.

If it is the Cleric, the caster level may be set between 1 and 2 (the Cleric's max), and he will be charged (1 * CL) experience points. The scroll, when finished, will be a Divine scroll of Cure Light Wounds - useless to the Wizard, but usable by any Cleric.

Instead of the Wizard 3, we now have an Artificer 3 helping the Cleric. If the Cleric is the creator, the same rules as above apply.

If, instead, the Artificer is the creator, the caster level may be set between 1 and 3 (the Artificer's max CL when creating items - he only counts as CL 5 when meeting prerequisites*), and he is charged (1 * CL) experience points. The scroll, when finished, will be neither Arcane nor Divine, and so will only be useful to another character with UMD. Note, however, that since the Cleric is providing the Cure Light Wounds prerequisite, the Artificer need not make UMD checks to emulate the spell.

* - Note: This is one aspect of the rules I'm not entirely clear on, since I don't have the ECS with me at work. You'll want to look at the text before accepting the above as gospel ...

Also note, that when spreading the XP loss around the party, it's usually impossible to shift some of that loss onto the Fighters and Rogues, etc. They all have a caster level of 0, and most magic items cannot be created with a caster level of 0.

There are also some items - like the Cloak of Elvenkind (creator must be an elf) and Boots of Striding and Springing (creator must have 5 ranks in the Jump skill) - that force the creator to meet certain prerequisites, which cannot be met with the aid of another.

 

[Rel]

You guys have helped me tremendously with my understanding of this. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Glad to help!

I hope your artificer player is happy, too - I've found that a properly functioning artificer is one of the absolute best guys to have at your back in a fight. What's that? A goblin lair? Here's a goblinbane on your sword. What? The warforged monk is getting creamed? Now he's got DR 10 / Adamantine. We need to open this door, and you can't pick the lock? Hold a moment ... [time passes] ... Here's a one-shot wand of Knock.

 

[Rel]

One new wrinkle to add:

If a Cleric and an Artificer worked together (with the Cleric as the designated Creator) to make a Divine Scroll of Cure Light Wounds then it would be a Divine scroll and the Artificer would have to emulate at least an 11 Wis to activate it.

If a Wizard and an Artificer worked together (with the Wizard as the designated Creator) to make an Arcane Scroll of Magic Missile then it would be an Arcane scroll and the Artificer would have to emulate at least an 11 Int to activate it (if he didn't already have one).

But what about a Sorcerer and an Artificer doing the same thing? If the Artificer had a 10 Cha would he have to emulate an 11 to cast it since that's the primary casting stat of the Sorcerer? Or is the fact that it's an Arcane scroll good enough to let him use Int?