Level Up (A5E) Help me understand the Marshal

[zen_cat]

I love the idea of the Marshal class, but am concerned that at lower levels the marshal isn't going to be as effective as other characters, and I want to make sure I'm not missing something in how the rules work.

At 1st level you get Commanding Presence, which at that stage only works on allies within 10 ft. If I'm reading it correctly, it allows you to give one of your attacks to an ally, and it costs them a reaction. This seems like a poor trade, as two of any other class could get the same amount of attacks, but they would be able to use manuvers or spells, and no one would need to spend their reaction. Am I missing something?

You also get rallying surge, which at 1st level will heal someone for 1d8+1, recharging on a long rest, which seems like a good secondary ability.

In comparison to this, a Fighter gets 3 manuvers, a fighting style, and a soldiering knack. So at first level it seems that the party is less effective if it contains a marshal.

At 2nd level, the marshal starts to get half as many manuvers as the fighter does at this stage, and their first lesson of war, which seems equivalent to the knack that fighters get at 1st level.

At 3rd level, everyone gets archetypes (yay!). Marshals get Mark Foe, which is a solid ability, adding an expertise dice to attacks against one enemy, and arguably stronger than the Manuver specialization that fighters get at this level. Notably, marshal archetypes don't get an extra manuver school like the Fighter.

Based on the first three levels, it seems to me like the Marshal isn't a great choice, unless I'm missing something. Does anyone have any experience with marshals in their game? Do you use any houserules?

 

[xiphumor]

Being a Marshal is about finding places other people will be more effective rather than being effective yourself, per se.

Does your party have a Rogue? They now sneak attack twice as often.

A Ranger? Free accuracy bonus.

Berserker? Another chance for a furious critical.

Any cantrips that aren’t worth using on your turn such as Resistance or Spare the Dying? Feel free!

And you don’t have to commit to any of these!

Throw in basically a twinned, and stronger, healing word a level 3, as well as a bless variant with no concentration as a bonus action, and you have something special!

 

[noodohs]

There's also something to be said for the fact that not everything in the game is about DPS. An awful lot of the game doesn't happen in combat. The Marshal is a character who is a martial, a support class, and has charisma. You lose raw effectiveness on some things to gain utility elsewhere. As for Commanding Presence, it's really about deciding who is the better fit for that attack. Maybe your movement wasn't enough to get you in range of the enemy, but your ally is already there and within 10 feet of you. Now they get to attack when you couldn't. Maybe they just outright do more damage then you, now they get to attack instead of you. It's situational, but the class is all about options.

 

[Pedantic]

Yeah, the Marshal in my campaign is pretty happy, though we did start at level 3. Mark Foe is exceptionally good, and they're fine with maneuvers. Remember the fighter is slightly ahead of all the other martial classes there, so the Marshal is on par with a ranger or barbarian in that department.

The martial plays a little like a fighter if there's a lot of enemies, and then closes with the adept and usually hands off attacks to turn when they're paired against a shared target.

The archetype 3rd level abilities are all quite good as well, they're on Talented Tactician in my group, and that's a ton of bonus accuracy.

 

[xiphumor]

Yeah, the Marshal in my campaign is pretty happy, though we did start at level 3. Mark Foe is exceptionally good, and they're fine with maneuvers. Remember the fighter is slightly ahead of all the other martial classes there, so the Marshal is on par with a ranger or barbarian in that department.

The martial plays a little like a fighter if there's a lot of enemies, and then closes with the adept and usually hands off attacks to turn when they're paired against a shared target.

The archetype 3rd level abilities are all quite good as well, they're on Talented Tactician in my group, and that's a ton of bonus accuracy.

Why the adept? Adepts would seem to get the least use out of a Marshal with their many, small attacks.

 

[Pedantic]

He's got higher damage potential still. We're in a zeitgeist campaign, so the Marshal is mostly focused around using a couple pistols for a few shots to open, then moving to melee with a shield/shortsword for a particularly high AC.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

There's also something to be said for the fact that not everything in the game is about DPS. An awful lot of the game doesn't happen in combat. The Marshal is a character who is a martial, a support class, and has charisma. You lose raw effectiveness on some things to gain utility elsewhere. As for Commanding Presence, it's really about deciding who is the better fit for that attack. Maybe your movement wasn't enough to get you in range of the enemy, but your ally is already there and within 10 feet of you. Now they get to attack when you couldn't. Maybe they just outright do more damage then you, now they get to attack instead of you. It's situational, but the class is all about options.

I came here to basically say this. the Marshal is a great support martial class. Their job is to make others better. A good Marshal will be effective in encounters (social or combat), but will also make their companions better by being near them.

As @xiphumor pointed out the commanding presence is about more than just swapping who has attacks and will be dependent on your party make up. Having a rogue in the group means you can legit get 2 to 3 sneak attacks per round (3rd on attacks of opportunity if they pop up) before counting the rogue's build. Extra attacks with an eldritch blast for a warlock? Sure. The options just go on an on.

In one of my games a player has a 5th level Elven Marshal that sits back with the sorcerer and feeds the sorcerer attacks with their cantrips then uses a bow to attack as needed. They're mobile support. Nothing spectacular DPS wise, but great for boosting others and helping out during exploration with the Teamwork, Soldier Kitting, and Rewarding Repute Lessons of War. The whole party gets boosts off these.

 

[xiphumor]

@WarDriveWorley Hold up. Warlock's Eldritch Blast is no longer a cantrip, so unless you're using Eldritch Scythe which specifically states that it takes the place of a weapon attack, I don't think it qualifies. Actually, I'm not even sure that Eldrtich Scythe qualifies, as it specifies that it has to be part of the Attack action or an opportunity attack.

I'd love to be proven wrong here. Perhaps one of the devs can weigh in?

 

[WarDriveWorley]

@WarDriveWorley Hold up. Warlock's Eldritch Blast is no longer a cantrip, so unless you're using Eldritch Scythe which specifically states that it takes the place of a weapon attack, I don't think it qualifies. Actually, I'm not even sure that Eldrtich Scythe qualifies, as it specifies that it has to be part of the Attack action or an opportunity attack.

I'd love to be proven wrong here. Perhaps one of the devs can weigh in?

Sugar.. you're right. Mixed up my versions here. That's my bad. I'm fairly certain you're right that it doesn't fully qualify and thanks for pointing it out.

 

[noodohs]

You'd also lose your attack of opportunity since you have to use your reaction to make the attack granted by Commanding Presence. But still, the general point stands.