Help! Monster skill points and EHD

[fenzer]

I need some clarification. In the MM, pg 11, there is a chart that outlines skill points by monster type, all good. The twist is with the skill bonus per Extra Hit Dice or EHD. The column lists a bonus number, say +2, for each EHD and shows a footnote telling you to subtract a number based on size for each EHD, 2 for large for example.

I assume this is for moster progression but am unsure. I have created a centaur character and need to know his total skill points. He is multiclassed centaur/cleric. I have given the centaur and ECL of 5, out of the DMG, and not advanced his monster levels at all. I am taking him right out of the MM.

First of all, how do I adjust my skill points by EHD and second, do I even need to worry about it?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Voadam]

My understanding is that the EHD skill advancement is only for advancing your monster HD (your monster class). If you never advance past the base as a centaur it is not relevant for your character. When you advance in a character class level you get the class skills modified by your intelligence. Your size and EHD skill modifiers do not apply when advancing in anything besides EHD. I think for your base you get the centaur skill allotment and never get a 1st level character's class X4 allotment. So your base as a centaur (monstrous humanoid) is your intx2 and the centaur standard skills are considered class skills for those points.

 

[Voadam]

If you do decide to advance as a centaur instead of as a character class he will get 2 skill points per level according to the chart. I'm not sure if they get int modifer to that.

The size does not affect the skill points awarded, it only determines how many EHD a creature can have (a max monster level).

 

[Voadam]

The above was how I thought about it before but looking at it again, and having had access to the dragon magazine article on making monsters, I might have gotten it wrong.

From the srd,

Skills

This line lists all the creature’s skills by name along with each skill’s score.

A creature’s type and Intelligence score determine the number of skill points it has. Some creatures receive bonus skill points for having Hit Dice in excess of what is normal for creatures of their size, as listed in the accompanying table.

Monstrous humanoid 2xInt score +2/EHD

*-EHD: Extra Hit Die. To calculate EHD, subtract 1 from the creature’s total Hit Dice if it is Medium-size or smaller; 2 if Large; 4 if Huge; 16 if Gargantuan; and 32 if Colossal. Treat results less than 0 as 0.

EHD seems to be beyond a base for sizes, not advancing by monster level.

Since centaurs are large monstrous 4HD humanoids they would have 2EHD and so have 2xint score +4
Again from the srd

Advancement

This book lists only the weakest and most common version of each creature. The Advancement line shows how tough the creature can get, in terms of extra Hit Dice. (This is not an absolute limit, but exceptions are extremely rare.)

Improvement

As its Hit Dice increase, the creature’s attack bonuses and saving throw modifiers might improve, and it could gain more feats and skills, depending on its type.

Note that if the creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

Monstrous Humanoid

Monstrous Humanoid: These are humanoid creatures with monstrous or animalistic features, often having supernatural abilities. Unless noted otherwise, monstrous humanoids have darkvision with a range of 60 feet. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with all simple weapons and with any weapons mentioned in their entries.

Hit Die: d8
Attack Bonus: Total HD (as fighter)
Good Saving Throws: Reflex and Will
Skill Points: +2 per extra HD
Feats: +1 per 4 extra HD

So advancing as a centaur would pick up 2 skill points.

 

[fenzer]

Thanks Voadam. That is how I see at as well, skill points = 2 x Int + 4 (4HD - 2 (large) = 2 EHD, +2 skill points/EHD = 4). So, for my centaur, Int 8, I get 16 + 4 skill points.

I guess I needed a little reasurance.

Thanks for the foot work.

By the way, which dragon were you looking in?

 

[Voadam]

I don't know the issue number, it was early on in 3e. I saw it posted on the official spelljammer site. Since they were an official approved by WotC site I figured it was ok to download the article from there.

I would never have reverse engineered the extra HD from base size by type numbers just from the MM example critters. Rereading the monster entry now I see they are using the term two different ways in the MM. Using EHD as a term for both advancement hit dice and tougher than base size HD is confusing and lead to problems applying the formula back to MM creatures the first time I did it.