Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
It could be worse. The players could just be spooning.
* shudder *
* shudder *
Help! My players are spooning apart my campaign!
- Thread starter -=Xar=-
- Start date
Jürgen Hubert
First Post
Well, I'd say that the campaign has gone too far in this vein to retroactively declare that this wouldn't work - the players would probably deeply resent this at this point.
Of course, you can simply declare the campaign to be over and start a new one where this doesn't work. But it does sound like the players are having fun, so this isn't the ideal situation, either. So the question remains: How can you get the campaign become fun again for you, too?
First of all, I'd go away from the classical "dungeon delving" aspect of your campaign and instead explore the social impact of this innovation on your campaign setting. I recommend reading Discworld novels to get into the right frame of mind. Yes, they are technically "comedy", but at many points in the series there is some new bit of strange or magical technology (imp-based personal organizers and iconographcs, the clacks, and Devices in the last novel) which is then exploited by society to its fullest.
Besides, once your party started bashing down walls with spoons you have entered comedy territory in any case.
Well, let's take a closer look at your campaign. It is obvious that the PCs hit upon a genuine market niche - a scheme that allows them to make lots of money with far less effort than usual.
Which means that unless the PCs have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep their scheme a secret, other groups will try to get in on the action. Several other groups of adventurers will also try to get their hands on adamantine tools (driving up prices for the material), and there will be a rush for well-known old dungeons that are vulnerable to such attacks. The PCs might arrive at a dungeon only to find out that it has already been plundered out, or else will have to deal with other adventurers who are already in the process of plundering it. If they come to blows... well, if they make enough of a ruckus, the inhabitants of the dungeon will take notice and attack them while they are weakened...
Oh, and there is no reason why the other groups involved shouldn't improve on the idea. After all, spoons are fairly silly (and you should probably let them hear about a new bard song titled "Knights of the Spoon" that mocks them...). Let the others develop adamantine-studded drills and other specialized tools, and let the PCs struggle to keep with the latest innovations.
And since adamantine is now even more valuable than usual and the PCs are known to have large quantities of the stuff, there are bound to be a few attempts to steal their stockpile, or at least parts of it. This doesn't have to succeed - in fact, it probably shouldn't unless the PCs are simply sloppy with their security precautions - but it makes them paranoid, keeps them on their toes, and prevents them from thinking that they simply have a free ride.
Newer "dungeons", especially those with owners who suspect that the PCs might come after them, are likely to have a layout that is better protected against attacks like this. There will be live guards who can raise the alarm at any funny noises (since bashing down walls is unlikely to be quiet) or other strange occurrences. There might be guard creatures with Tremorsense in case the PCs attempt to Silence their zone of entry. There will be collapsing ceilings for anyone who tries to dig through wrong wall sections. And there will be good tactical drilling for the minions of the dungeon owner so that they can react flexibly to rude people who won't take the usual entrances and defend the complex effectively.
Older dungeons, on the other hand, lack these precautions - which is why they are the ones their rival groups are most likely to go after. If they don't hurry, they will be empty by the time they arrive.
As for their plans for using golems to strip-mine the land in search for minerals, by all means let them try - but don't make it too easy for them, either.
First of all, do any of the PCs have appropriate Knowledge skills (such as Knowledge (geography)) at high ranks to actually find new mineral deposits? If not, tough luck - and even if they do, the search will be lengthy and difficult. Is the land they plan to mine already part of some kingdom? If yes, its rulers might object to the PCs digging up their territory - or at least demand a very hefty cut. If no, then they will need to protect themselves from the harsh conditions of a remote wilderness area and then figure out how to actually get all this stuff back to civilization and sell it! And there might be barbarian tribes of humanoids or druids who object to their efforts on general principle and will harass them or even try to kill them...
And then there is the creation of the actual mine. Do they have Knowledge (architecture) at sufficient rank? If not, then they will have to deal with the fact that mountains will have a disturbing tendency to drop on the golems excavating them - and it should take quite some time to dig them out again (assuming that the golem even survive this), adamantine spoons or not. Note that bashing in the rock with adamantine in itself is not enough to build shafts - the debris must also be moved away from the mountain, and adamantine is not going to help with this part of the process!
And if they actually do manage to pull it off and gain more money from it - well, then here too other groups will take notice and emulate their efforts, possibly starting with more startup money and better experts. This will result in a drop of mineral prices (thanks to all the competition flooding the market), making this business less profitable...
Of course, assuming the PCs can pull all this off, their status in the world will change. First of all, they will be very rich, and this attracts all sorts of attention, some of them unwanted. Various power groups will either court their favor, while others will see them as a threat (especially if they own an army of golems...). Throw them into the arenas of political intrigue of the major kingdoms of your campaign world! Have rulers "request" (or demand, if that doesn't work) that they use their golems for some war or other. Let various people try to borrow money from them or offer them further "make money quick" schemes. Let them make friends among the rich and powerful - and enemies which they can't attack directly because they are too much of a part of the local power structure.
Oh, and as for selling dungeons to Evil Overlords... let them try that, too. But any smart Evil Overlord will know better than buying a dungeon from people who have the tools for easily entering them. In fact, any genuine Evil Overlord will vastly prefer building his own dungeons to his own specifications instead of buying it from untrustworthy strangers - and Evil Overlords know all about treachery.
To sum it up, if you genuinely want to continue this campaign, don't try to retroactively ban established parts of your campaign. Instead, use the ideas the playerss come up with as opportunity for further adventures. If you think that the scheme has a realistic chance of working at all, let them try and make it possible to succeed at it, but try to come up with all sorts of interesting complications which make for interesting adventures. This way, adventure and campaign design actually become easier as the PCs drive the plot instead of forcing you to come up with something new...
Of course, you can simply declare the campaign to be over and start a new one where this doesn't work. But it does sound like the players are having fun, so this isn't the ideal situation, either. So the question remains: How can you get the campaign become fun again for you, too?
First of all, I'd go away from the classical "dungeon delving" aspect of your campaign and instead explore the social impact of this innovation on your campaign setting. I recommend reading Discworld novels to get into the right frame of mind. Yes, they are technically "comedy", but at many points in the series there is some new bit of strange or magical technology (imp-based personal organizers and iconographcs, the clacks, and Devices in the last novel) which is then exploited by society to its fullest.
Besides, once your party started bashing down walls with spoons you have entered comedy territory in any case.
Well, let's take a closer look at your campaign. It is obvious that the PCs hit upon a genuine market niche - a scheme that allows them to make lots of money with far less effort than usual.
Which means that unless the PCs have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep their scheme a secret, other groups will try to get in on the action. Several other groups of adventurers will also try to get their hands on adamantine tools (driving up prices for the material), and there will be a rush for well-known old dungeons that are vulnerable to such attacks. The PCs might arrive at a dungeon only to find out that it has already been plundered out, or else will have to deal with other adventurers who are already in the process of plundering it. If they come to blows... well, if they make enough of a ruckus, the inhabitants of the dungeon will take notice and attack them while they are weakened...
Oh, and there is no reason why the other groups involved shouldn't improve on the idea. After all, spoons are fairly silly (and you should probably let them hear about a new bard song titled "Knights of the Spoon" that mocks them...). Let the others develop adamantine-studded drills and other specialized tools, and let the PCs struggle to keep with the latest innovations.
And since adamantine is now even more valuable than usual and the PCs are known to have large quantities of the stuff, there are bound to be a few attempts to steal their stockpile, or at least parts of it. This doesn't have to succeed - in fact, it probably shouldn't unless the PCs are simply sloppy with their security precautions - but it makes them paranoid, keeps them on their toes, and prevents them from thinking that they simply have a free ride.
Newer "dungeons", especially those with owners who suspect that the PCs might come after them, are likely to have a layout that is better protected against attacks like this. There will be live guards who can raise the alarm at any funny noises (since bashing down walls is unlikely to be quiet) or other strange occurrences. There might be guard creatures with Tremorsense in case the PCs attempt to Silence their zone of entry. There will be collapsing ceilings for anyone who tries to dig through wrong wall sections. And there will be good tactical drilling for the minions of the dungeon owner so that they can react flexibly to rude people who won't take the usual entrances and defend the complex effectively.
Older dungeons, on the other hand, lack these precautions - which is why they are the ones their rival groups are most likely to go after. If they don't hurry, they will be empty by the time they arrive.
As for their plans for using golems to strip-mine the land in search for minerals, by all means let them try - but don't make it too easy for them, either.
First of all, do any of the PCs have appropriate Knowledge skills (such as Knowledge (geography)) at high ranks to actually find new mineral deposits? If not, tough luck - and even if they do, the search will be lengthy and difficult. Is the land they plan to mine already part of some kingdom? If yes, its rulers might object to the PCs digging up their territory - or at least demand a very hefty cut. If no, then they will need to protect themselves from the harsh conditions of a remote wilderness area and then figure out how to actually get all this stuff back to civilization and sell it! And there might be barbarian tribes of humanoids or druids who object to their efforts on general principle and will harass them or even try to kill them...
And then there is the creation of the actual mine. Do they have Knowledge (architecture) at sufficient rank? If not, then they will have to deal with the fact that mountains will have a disturbing tendency to drop on the golems excavating them - and it should take quite some time to dig them out again (assuming that the golem even survive this), adamantine spoons or not. Note that bashing in the rock with adamantine in itself is not enough to build shafts - the debris must also be moved away from the mountain, and adamantine is not going to help with this part of the process!
And if they actually do manage to pull it off and gain more money from it - well, then here too other groups will take notice and emulate their efforts, possibly starting with more startup money and better experts. This will result in a drop of mineral prices (thanks to all the competition flooding the market), making this business less profitable...
Of course, assuming the PCs can pull all this off, their status in the world will change. First of all, they will be very rich, and this attracts all sorts of attention, some of them unwanted. Various power groups will either court their favor, while others will see them as a threat (especially if they own an army of golems...). Throw them into the arenas of political intrigue of the major kingdoms of your campaign world! Have rulers "request" (or demand, if that doesn't work) that they use their golems for some war or other. Let various people try to borrow money from them or offer them further "make money quick" schemes. Let them make friends among the rich and powerful - and enemies which they can't attack directly because they are too much of a part of the local power structure.
Oh, and as for selling dungeons to Evil Overlords... let them try that, too. But any smart Evil Overlord will know better than buying a dungeon from people who have the tools for easily entering them. In fact, any genuine Evil Overlord will vastly prefer building his own dungeons to his own specifications instead of buying it from untrustworthy strangers - and Evil Overlords know all about treachery.
To sum it up, if you genuinely want to continue this campaign, don't try to retroactively ban established parts of your campaign. Instead, use the ideas the playerss come up with as opportunity for further adventures. If you think that the scheme has a realistic chance of working at all, let them try and make it possible to succeed at it, but try to come up with all sorts of interesting complications which make for interesting adventures. This way, adventure and campaign design actually become easier as the PCs drive the plot instead of forcing you to come up with something new...
merelycompetent
First Post
merelycompetent said:
I came up with another one after a night's sleep:
24. The warhammer was actually a pseudonatural adamantine-based life form from the Far Realm. It feeds on metal, and reproduces by either fission (which reduces the overall size, HD, and hp of the creature), or contact with adamantine items. (Be nice - make it non-magical adamantine. Or go for broke: The flaming, shocking <pseudonatural> adamantine +3 bastard sword suddenly sprouting tentacles that embed themselves in the wielder (granting DR 20/adamantine) and then taking over his body to attack the other PCs for their adamantine should create some interesting situations for your party). The players will probably think that thieves are somehow - by DM's fiat - stealing their gold and platinum, at first. Y'know, 20 coins here, 100 there. Please note that it reproduces by *contact* with adamantine items (gestation period 1-3 days, or hours, or rounds...), so fighting a DR 20/adamantine creature can pose a few challenges. As the PCs start contaminating adamantine items, they may find themselves at the top of the Wanted (or UnWanted) list wherever they go. Killing the darn thing causes it to split open - whereupon they discover that the creature's digestive processes have converted 90% of the adamantine into diamonds... with threads of adamantine inside them, like blood vessels. (And if you want to be mean, don't tell them that the diamonds are the eggs. On the other hand, this is also a good way to let them keep at least the money and *some* of the adamantine as a reward for being good sports.)
Allandaros
Explorer
Adamantium spoons.
This has to be a joke. There's no other way. NOBODY would forge adamantium spoons. I can't believe it.
This has to be a joke. There's no other way. NOBODY would forge adamantium spoons. I can't believe it.
Jürgen Hubert
First Post
Allandaros said:
After being online for more than ten years, I have come to the conclusion that therer is nothing out there too bizarre for someone to do it.
I have this house rule that adamantine is 'once-forged', meaning once it is forged into something like a weapon or an suit of armor or certain other objects, it cannot be reforged. The process of forging it into that structure, has permanantly changed the metal to make it unworkable.
But that doesn't solve your problem. Wandering monsters....like has been suggested...rust monsters.
Also...have you every tried to scoop hard ice cream up with a spoon? They bend. Bend then enough times and they break....
But that doesn't solve your problem. Wandering monsters....like has been suggested...rust monsters.
Also...have you every tried to scoop hard ice cream up with a spoon? They bend. Bend then enough times and they break....
joshuakanton
First Post
Have them attacked by,
A Orc with a fork, or
A Xill with a drill, or
A Wight with a Light, or
A Dragon with a Wagon, or
A Hag with a Bag, or
A Gnoll with a bowl, or
A Ghost with Toast, or
An Azer with a Beer
Just a thought.
A Orc with a fork, or
A Xill with a drill, or
A Wight with a Light, or
A Dragon with a Wagon, or
A Hag with a Bag, or
A Gnoll with a bowl, or
A Ghost with Toast, or
An Azer with a Beer
Just a thought.
How long does it take to dig a tunnel with an adamantine spoon? Does an adamantine spoon cause dirt and rocks to evaporate? There's so much I just don't know about adamantine spoons.
Why didn't they make toothpicks in order to do the same thing? They could have gotten alot more toothpicks than spoons. What's with all those columns supporting the ceiling in dungeons? Betcha dungeon architects feel like idiots now for spending all that time building columns and shoring up tunnels when you can just dig around willy-nilly however you want.
Why didn't they make toothpicks in order to do the same thing? They could have gotten alot more toothpicks than spoons. What's with all those columns supporting the ceiling in dungeons? Betcha dungeon architects feel like idiots now for spending all that time building columns and shoring up tunnels when you can just dig around willy-nilly however you want.
