Help!! My smart players are acting like idiots (lengthy rant)

[jgbrowning]

let'm do what they want. let'm all get killed.


take the next group they roll up and put them in a situation that refers or is parallel to the one the previous characters died trying to solve.

continuity goes a long way..

joe b.

 

[Zerovoid]

Well, if you want to let the group know how powerful these bad guys are without TPKing them, maybe you could just kill the familiar the next time it is flying around and scouting.

"Hey boss, that bird is acting suspicious"
Lightning Bolt. Sizzle, pop, no more raven.

That will let them know they shouldn't be messing around with these guys.

 

[The Lone Corndog]

Doh!!

So these evil folks use slaves eh? Where did the slaves come from? They were probably the last group of fools to sneak up to the door and try a knock spell ...*snip*...You just need to think about why the bad guys would want them alive (information if nothing else), and what they would do with the prisoners once they have them. Nothing is easier to escape than an ad-libbed prison, so make it real and figure it out before hand. It can still be a great adventure.

I can't believe I left this out. I know it was late when I started the thread, but still...

The slave that the party rescued was in fact a member of an adventuring party that had been hired (by someone other than the sage that employs the PC's party) to basically do the same thing the PC's party is supposed to be doing. They didn't have as much info to go on, however. They strolled into the ruins bold as brass, ran across a patrol of the creatures inhabiting the ruins, and jumped them. The fight went pretty well, except that one of the creatures ran away.

While the NPC party was busy patting themselves on the back for kicking butt and driving off the 'cowardly' foe, "The whole world crashed down on us," said the slave. They were counter-attacked by a large organized force of the creatures, had their butts handed to them on a platter, and found themselves enslaved. They were sentenced to five years hard labor for the crime of trespassing on forbidden ground, and for suspected thievery. Iosef, the rescued slave, believed that while the creatures may well honor the sentence and free them after five years, he really doubts they'd live that long.

The creatures used them as 'trap-springers' in the best Wulf Ratbane tradition. "You, slave! Walk down that corridor and see if anything kills you, or we'll kill you where you stand." Since then one of their party has died from springing a particularly nasty trap, and they have all been nearly killed a few times. The creatures keep patching them together so as to get the most use out of them.

So that's one of the bits of info the party has available to them. Sorry again for leaving that out - it explains why I got so many suggestions to show the party an object lesson demonstrating the creature's abilities. I already have done so, but didn't mention it. *drat*drat*drat*

 

[Al]

Not to be phenomenally cynical, but this 'Elminster' type is using 3rd/4th level characters to investigate a way to bring *the gods back faster*! Is he crazy? Surely he has some friends of slighter higher level that he can appeal to, especially for something as large as this.

I was always annoyed when Elminster would come up to the 1st level party and basically say that they had to rescue the world whilst he and his 26th level pals just blithered around making cryptic remarks.

 

[jasper]

Personally, I like AOA. I would clarify it a little better and smack any one who tries to rule lawyer it.
I love clerics and have been playing them since 1980. I do not see them being front loaded. In fact with reducing the number of turnings per dead it turns some of my former adventurers into killers because undead were everywhere.
I would slow down the advancement level table a little bit but not back to the 1e and 2e levels. My gamers love everyone on the same chart and are promoted the same time.
No more roll the die divide by two if dual or multiclass.

 

[WizarDru]

Re: Doh!!

So that's one of the bits of info the party has available to them. Sorry again for leaving that out - it explains why I got so many suggestions to show the party an object lesson demonstrating the creature's abilities. I already have done so, but didn't mention it. *drat*drat*drat*

Well, you still may want to make sure that they actually got the message correctly: to wit, they may still be thinking that the NPCs were Warrior 1s or the like, and not up to their level of competency. Or, they may actually have a cunning plan (real or imagined). Unless they're willfully ignorant, they'll avoid the tower if they see a large regular guard surrounding it. My suspicion is that they're planning on waiting for a quiet time (such as late night/early morning) and will attempt to bluff their way to the tower, and attempt entrance. You can resolve this one of two ways: let it work (but be fruitless, as we already know the tower is too well protected) or let it fail and have them driven off or be captured.

Their plan obviously doesn't have to fail and result in their death. The knowledge that the slave was a former NPC adventurer fuels the fire, in one respect, as it gives them an out, should they fail. They know that the creatures aren't mindless killers, and having them get captured and then forced to detect traps could be an excellent way to get them in a dungeon situation...then have a trap that drops a concrete block trapping them in the dungeon. Viola! Instant freed (albeit resource poor) party, struggling to survive a dungeon, find an alternate exit, and and maybe the key to the tower. Note that if you do this, make sure that any spellcasters have a chance to get their spells (possibly by having it occur on the same day). Otherwise, serious anti-fun could occur.

If they succeed in bluffing their way past the guards, they'll still fail at the tower, and then be forced to retreat and rethink their strategy. There are a lot of ways to make this work, even if the party is thinking with their swords, not their brains.