Help!! My smart players are acting like idiots (lengthy rant)

[Paul_Klein]

First, I want to say that your campaign world sounds INTERESTING!

Now, on to your question. Don't you think that perhaps you've made this whole 'encounter' a little too tough for them? IS there an easy/moderate way around this?

I can't think of a plan that would work almost guaranteed.

I think he biggest question here (as asked above) is what is the point of this encounter? DO you intend for them to get into that tower?

 

[jasper]

tpk, tpk, tpk, tpk, tpk!
let them have fun and die.

But it is not this a little high level for the party?

 

[The Lone Corndog]

Thanks for the feedback...

First off, thanks for some good ideas from Capellen,Fenes 2, and Kyramus. I probably won't use those exact suggestions, but I think y'all have sparked a few fresh ideas for me to polish up before next session.

WizarDru, I think you're dead on in your assesment. Dropping them in a crypt does sound fun....

JERandall, Jasperak, Paul_Klein, and jasper have all asked, basically, should the party even be in this situation. I thought about going into more background and motivation in the OP, but thought it was too long - so here's more stuff that will hopefully answer your concerns. Oh, and Paul_Klein, thanks - I've tried to make my world interesting for the guys; glad you thought it sounds interesting too.

Why are they in the ruins?
The party has done some work in the recent past for a sage/wizard/Elminster-type. The sage is trying to unravel the mystery of the reason(s) behind the WCE, the mechanism of the WCE, and whether the effects, (which are slowly fading) can be tinkered with to accelerate the fading process, thus 'bringing back' the gods faster. The party has been of some assistance in the past, and were asked to: investigate the Blackmarsh to confirm that the ruins existed at all, explore the ruins if located, and get into one of the towers if possible looking for clues (maps, diaries, spellbooks, histories, etc.) that would help the sage in his research.

On a personal level, one of the players is a cleric, and wants to help his deity in any way possible. Not to mention that he has to perform certain types of (holy/religious) tasks in order to be able to get higher level spells. The wizard is motivated by the possibility of finding 'lost' magic - such as may be found in an ancient city of magic. The psychic warrior is concerned with the return of the gods out of fear of (possible)religious persecution of his people.

Is this too high a level of challenge for the party?
Yes and no. I lifted most of this section of the adventure from a published module for 6th level characters. I've made a lot of storyline changes to the module to fit in my campaign and toned down the encounters to what I think a group of 3rd level guys should be able to handle, if they play their cards right. The operative word of course, is 'should'. The way the guys are taking their initial approach to the ruins is putting things in doubt, and the reason I started this thread.

What do I expect them to accomplish?
I expect for them to get into the tower eventually. It won't be easy, however, or done in one day. I expect the party to be lurking about, exploring the other parts of the ruins for several sessions, at least, before taking on the tower itself.

They have reason to believe that as long as they don't overtly attract attention to themselves, they can move around large parts of the ruins area without too much danger. Scouting and recon shouldn't be hard. They have reason to believe that some of the previously looted crypts have a lock similar (though presumably less powerful) to the one on the tower - maybe a dry run to test the plan would be smart? Well, yes it would, but I haven't heard anything about trying that route. They know what some of the caste markings look like, and what they mean. Have they thought about trying to alter their low-caste outfits to mimic someone of higher caste, thereby increasing their potential areas of exploration? Not that I've heard.

Anyway, hope the additional info answers your questions. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[The Lone Corndog]

Malachai_rose, yeah, these are the same guys from Rel's spin off of Old One's Faded Glory campaign setting. Thanks for stopping by. I've had the wizard do Int checks a couple of times already in the campaign because I felt the character would know/remember something the player obviously didn't. I don't want to lead the party around by the nose, however. That's no fun - I want to watch them figure out the puzzles, feel their way through the plot, etc. So, good idea, but I've already used it a couple of times and don't want to abuse it; thanks for the suggestion anyway.

We won't play again til Tuesday night, so it'll be a while before I have any new information.

 

[Jasperak]

I think refreshing their memory on why they are there would be in order. I think that if they were to explore the area first, it would be easy for them to witness the power level of the creatures, generate a map of the area, and see how the creatures are attempting to enter these doors/crypts.

I don't know though, seems fairly easy to see the proper course of action, if the players have experience with stealth/gather info adventures.

Word of advice though, if they are using metagame knowledge as has been stated before, fry them, and fry them hard. As a player I know better than to think that all the situations the DM would put me in can be resolved at that time. As a DM I will ocassionally put players into situations that they cannot resolve at their current power level.

Another word of advice, you have created a situation for your players. As long as you feel confident that you have given them the ability to reason out the proper course of action for themselves, let them proceed the way they wish. Try to show them the folly of their ways by stomping on them first, then if they continue, adjudicate the situation without prejudice for or against the party.

Hope it helps.

 

[alsih2o]

have them arrive just in time to see something much more powerful than them gettiing slaughtered

 

[Zappo]

Let ‘em all get killed. That’ll teach ‘em.

 

[0-hr]

So these evil folks use slaves eh? Where did the slaves come from? They were probably the last group of fools to sneak up to the door and try a knock spell


Anyway, just go for TPC (Total Party Capture) instead of TPK. At 3rd level, that "incapacitated" zone is wide enough that most will probably survive if some priest caste types are nearby to stabilize.

Heck, if they try the knock and it fails, causing 50+ bad guys to look their way, they might even be smart enough to surrender rather than get beat unconsious. You just need to think about why the bad guys would want them alive (information if nothing else), and what they would do with the prisoners once they have them. Nothing is easier to escape than an ad-libbed prison, so make it real and figure it out before hand. It can still be a great adventure.

 

[WizarDru]

have them arrive just in time to see something much more powerful than them gettiing slaughtered

What, do I stutter?

 

[Agback]

G'day

Let the PCs sneak in. Let them discover that the high-caste dingoi take a break from spell-casting at the door for their noon meal/to sleep at night etc. Allow the PCs to sneak up to the door while the spellcasters are away, overcome the elite and five guards left to guard the door. Let them cast their knock spells. Show them that the knock spells fail. Let them fight their way out through a camp roused by the noise of their overcoming the guards. Pummel them a bit.

And then have the bad guys send for reinforcements, divert resources from search for the key into patrolling and guarding, etc. That way the players' obtuseness will have cost them without killing them, and they will have more information.

In future, when planning D&D adventures, remember that players tend to be drawn in the direction of game detail. They often tend to use their character abilities before they try anything that just anyone could do, because the whole focus of D&D is on character abilities. The core ethos sentence for D&D is "adventurers overcome conflicts lesser people cannot deal with, by use of class abilities". So players are often going to use their class abilities before they use, say, their heads or their dramatic sense.

When what you have is a hammer, all you problems tend to look like nails. When what you have is a D&D character, all your problems look like dungeon-crawls. IME IMHO. YMMV. YDWYDWP.

Regards,


Agback