Help! - Need a replacement for D&D (criteria below)

[Thunderfoot]

Okay so my daughter came home from college with her boyfriend for Thanksgiving and on the last day they were here said "oh, by the way, when we come back for Christmas, we want to play D&D." I have been fretting ever since. Why, because I came to the realization that I like aspects of all the editions but absolutely hate others.
So what do I need, a game system, or even a point in the right direction for printed optional rules would be great. I could re-write the entire D&D set into a single new edition, but since 5th is supposedly doing just that, I am loathe to re-invent the wheel, just in time for someone else to invent the Corvette.

The Laundry List:
Six stats - random roll preferably Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con & Char (notice the 1st edition influence)
Non linear experience tables - the idea of 1st edition balance was unequal leveling, I like it.
NO FEATS!!! - Power creep and power gaming are something I abhor.
No THAC0, I admit, 3.X spoiled me on the linear combat all adds charts
Ability linked Saving Throws, another thing 3.X got right.
Skills instead of special abilities - mostly for things like tracking and thieves' skills.
Vancian Magic - if possible.
Clerics that heal, Mages that throw spells, and Fighters that hit things with weapons.
No "salad bar" multi-classing. (3.X blew it big time with this (IMO))
No magic items required. - While it was nearly impossible to play 1st and 2nd editions without magic items, it could be done, 3rd started skewing with treasure by level charts and 4th just lost it's mind completely with the walking Christmas tree assortment. (This doesn't mean I won't be using magic items, they just aren't going to be readily available - no Wal-Magics)

Now I realize this comes from a D&D background, it's what I know and love (sort of) but the glut of rules has made the idea of DMing a nightmare for me. Is there a knockoff system that uses most of the list, please point me in the direction. Is there a completely different game that has a small learning curve I can grab, please let me know. I realize this is a lot to ask, but the site problems delayed this a bit, otherwise I would have come crying for help much sooner.

So please, give your recommendations, give a brief description why it would work and be honest and list any cons as well. Do not comment on others posts unless you have something constructive to add. X edition/game/person is stupid is not only a violation of board rules, it wastes my time, which I don't have much of at this point.

 

[Votan]

Rules Cyclopedia (which even has variant rules for abilities influencing ability scores) is able to do almost everything on the list. The main con is that the game is out of print and my recent searching suggests used copies are rather pricey these days.

If you are a looking for a simpler version of 3.X D&D, I was a big fan of the black book beta version of legends & labyrinths. You can see updates on the game at http://thealexandrian.net/. I am not sure if the author is still making the game available while we wait for the final version but you might be able to ask him. It turned feats into class abilities which was a huge improvement over 3.5E but stays compatible with the 3.5 era gaming material.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Thank you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You might expect this of me, but HERO (4th, 5th, or 6th) can do pretty much what you want except the 6 stats.

I've used HERO to run a campaign ht combined elements of 1Ed, 2Ed and 3Ed, and should I have chosen to do so, I could have thrown in 4Ed style PCs as well.

 

[GhostBear]

You may wish to give 13th Age a look.

It has the standard 6 stats. XP doesn't exist, and it allows for partial levelling up. It doesn't use THAC0. Ability linked saves - and EVERY stat is important with the (very simple) implementation. I like how they handled skills as well. There are no multiclassing rules, and magic items are not required - player level is far more important. Going by the book, an incredibly powerful magic item will give you a +3, for example.

It DOES include feats.

It DOES NOT include dozens of pages on tactical combat movement. I would feel comfortable running the game without minis at all, actually. Rules-wise, it feels like D&D but without a lot of the clutter.

It DOES NOT include 100 pages of spells. I feel that the spell list is a little too simple, but if you're going for a more simplified version of things this might be a great starting point. Just add what you feel is missing.

It includes some 4e-isms, unfortunately: It has daily/encounter abilities and healing surges, both of which turn me off (big time), but that's what house rules are for. Easy to fix. No healing surges, adjust encounters accordingly, done. Set up a vancian spell system; Adjust on the fly if need be. Done.

Characters also have a good amount of HP at first level, so you don't have One Hit Wonders.

So, it doesn't include everything on your list, but a large portion of it. Definitely worth looking into.

 

[innerdude]

Okay so my daughter came home from college with her boyfriend for Thanksgiving and on the last day they were here said "oh, by the way, when we come back for Christmas, we want to play D&D." I have been fretting ever since. Why, because I came to the realization that I like aspects of all the editions but absolutely hate others.
So what do I need, a game system, or even a point in the right direction for printed optional rules would be great. I could re-write the entire D&D set into a single new edition, but since 5th is supposedly doing just that, I am loathe to re-invent the wheel, just in time for someone else to invent the Corvette.

The Laundry List:
Six stats - random roll preferably Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con & Char (notice the 1st edition influence)
Non linear experience tables - the idea of 1st edition balance was unequal leveling, I like it.
NO FEATS!!! - Power creep and power gaming are something I abhor.
No THAC0, I admit, 3.X spoiled me on the linear combat all adds charts
Ability linked Saving Throws, another thing 3.X got right.
Skills instead of special abilities - mostly for things like tracking and thieves' skills.
Vancian Magic - if possible.
Clerics that heal, Mages that throw spells, and Fighters that hit things with weapons.
No "salad bar" multi-classing. (3.X blew it big time with this (IMO))
No magic items required. - While it was nearly impossible to play 1st and 2nd editions without magic items, it could be done, 3rd started skewing with treasure by level charts and 4th just lost it's mind completely with the walking Christmas tree assortment. (This doesn't mean I won't be using magic items, they just aren't going to be readily available - no Wal-Magics)

Now I realize this comes from a D&D background, it's what I know and love (sort of) but the glut of rules has made the idea of DMing a nightmare for me. Is there a knockoff system that uses most of the list, please point me in the direction. Is there a completely different game that has a small learning curve I can grab, please let me know. I realize this is a lot to ask, but the site problems delayed this a bit, otherwise I would have come crying for help much sooner.

So please, give your recommendations, give a brief description why it would work and be honest and list any cons as well. Do not comment on others posts unless you have something constructive to add. X edition/game/person is stupid is not only a violation of board rules, it wastes my time, which I don't have much of at this point.

Based on your list I'd suggest Castles and Crusades. It's a solidly "retro" take on D&D 1e in spirit, but uses the upwards-moving AC and attack scale. Multi-classing is possible, but not really emphasized. Skills are supported. Magic items are somewhat required for "fighting" classes, but the rules encourage much more unique magic items. I don't recall if XP is non-linear across all classes.

Either that, as suggested earlier check out the Dark Dungeon PDF (it's free), which is a retro-clone of the BECMI / Rules Cyclopedia.

OR----stretch your boundaries and pick up a copy of the $10 Savage World's Deluxe Explorer's Edition. It's not D&D. It doesn't fit your criteria. But believe me when I tell you you'll thank me later if you do.

 

[Wightbred]

I hear you: my dissatisfaction with various editions of D&D lead me to Dungeon World.

Compared to your requirements:
- Six stats: Yes
- Non linear experience tables: Not sure I understand this requirements, but XP is non-linear, and an easy (5 mins) to hack to whatever you want.
- NO FEATS!!! and Skills instead of special abilities: Moves instead of both, but no power creep or power gaming.
- No THAC0 and Ability linked Saving Throws: All rolls are based Stats.
- Vancian Magic: Sort of. You memorise, but forgetting is an option for poor casting, not a guarantee.
- Clerics that heal, Mages that throw spells, and Fighters that hit things: Definitely.
- No "salad bar" multi-classing: Yes, multi-classing is appropriately limited.
- No magic items required: Definitely.

Also:
- Old school play style (centres on described actions) with simplified more modern rules.
- Simple to learn and GM and designed to be hacked.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Going by your laundry list I wonder that nobody mentioned Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games.

Six stats - random roll preferably Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con & Char (notice the 1st edition influence)
- Check

Non linear experience tables - the idea of 1st edition balance was unequal leveling, I like it.

Sorry, levels use equal thresholds for all classes.

NO FEATS!!! - Power creep and power gaming are something I abhor.
Check.

No THAC0, I admit, 3.X spoiled me on the linear combat all adds charts

Check. 1D(curious shaped polyhedrons)+bonus.

Ability linked Saving Throws, another thing 3.X got right.

Check.

Skills instead of special abilities - mostly for things like tracking and thieves' skills.

Semi-check. Skills are downplayed; this game feels seriously retro. Each and every class has a sub-system built in to let it do something special.

Vancian Magic - if possible.

Semi-check. Casters roll on a table specific to the spell cast. With a bad roll you may lose access to this spell for the rest of the day. If you roll really bad, it might get ugly. Really ugly.

Clerics that heal, Mages that throw spells, and Fighters that hit things with weapons.

Check.

No "salad bar" multi-classing. (3.X blew it big time with this (IMO))

Check.

No magic items required. - While it was nearly impossible to play 1st and 2nd editions without magic items, it could be done, 3rd started skewing with treasure by level charts and 4th just lost it's mind completely with the walking Christmas tree assortment. (This doesn't mean I won't be using magic items, they just aren't going to be readily available - no Wal-Magics)

Check. Magic items are rare and special.

DCC tries to re-instill the wonders of our first games. Most things are on the DM's shoulders, player empowerment istn't really supported. Few rules mean a lot of freedom. Players will continuously face something they don't know and haven't the slightest idea of how to handle.

 

[S'mon]

Sounds like Castles & Crusades to me. Basic Fantasy RPG also meets the criteria.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

The Laundry List:
Six stats - random roll preferably Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con & Char (notice the 1st edition influence)
Non linear experience tables - the idea of 1st edition balance was unequal leveling, I like it.
NO FEATS!!! - Power creep and power gaming are something I abhor.
No THAC0, I admit, 3.X spoiled me on the linear combat all adds charts
Ability linked Saving Throws, another thing 3.X got right.
Skills instead of special abilities - mostly for things like tracking and thieves' skills.
Vancian Magic - if possible.
Clerics that heal, Mages that throw spells, and Fighters that hit things with weapons.
No "salad bar" multi-classing. (3.X blew it big time with this (IMO))
No magic items required. - While it was nearly impossible to play 1st and 2nd editions without magic items, it could be done, 3rd started skewing with treasure by level charts and 4th just lost it's mind completely with the walking Christmas tree assortment. (This doesn't mean I won't be using magic items, they just aren't going to be readily available - no Wal-Magics)

Radiance RPG:
1. Uses the six stats (you the GM decide on generation method with suggestions given).
2. Doesn't have unequal leveling but the XP is simplified.
3. No feats. The author is against power gaming and spells out how he tries to discourage it.
4. No THAC0.
5. Radiance uses damage resistance instead of AC and replaces AC with Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves all linked to one of two of the six attributes.
6. Has a good skill list and skills are open to all classes.
7. Vancian magic is not used, but amount of vitality limits how many spells can be cast.
8. Classes have set abilities: all clerics have lay on hands, all fighters have weapon focus, and all wizards have magic missile.
9. Multiclassing is optional.
10. Magic is optional (not required and some characters could have magic items and others not have it).

Radiance does have steampunk and electotech as options but they can be pulled (electrotech has its own chapter).

Also, the Radiance pdf is free:
http://www.radiancerpg.com/