D&D 4E HELP NEEDED: How to do ethereal plane and creatures in 4e?

[Najo]

I am wanting to covert ghostwalk for 4e: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4395987#post4395987

To do it right, I need a working ethereal plane (at least a near ethereal) and ghosts that are ethereal and can manifest on the material plane.

Currently, the ghosts in 4e are represented by the rules for insubstantial and phasing. This does not represent fully a creature that exists in a "spirit world" that coexists alongside the material world, or the near ethereal.

What I am looking for is easy rule ideas to represent ethereal creatures, manifestation and incorporality more like 3.5 ghosts.

How would any of you convert 3.5 style ethereal rules without all of the unnecessary burden of the 3.5 system but with a little more planar feel than the 4e rules have with insubstantial?

Also, how would you rewrite the ghost once you have those rules and how would you do a ghost template?

make sure to use the 4e design philosophies of less is more, make it playable as possible and exception based rules to the core game.

 

[Rechan]

Honestly? I'd replace any instance of "Ethereal" with "Shadowfell".

Both the Shadowfell and the Feywild exist as mirrors of the real world; if there's a house over there, in the Feywild there might be a dense hedgewood that looks like the house. In the Shadowfell, there is a burnt foundation of where a house was.

So it's an easy assumption to say that the Shadowfell is "Beside" the Material World, and thus a ghost can be in the same room with you - just in the Shadowfell.

Give ghosts an at will ability like manifestation that lets them port from the Shadowfell to the Real World and back. Alternatively, they can only "step over" in places they are haunting, that have emotional significance, or places where the barriers between the Shadowfell and the Real World are thin (Graveyards, etc).

Give them an ability that allows them to see the material world (think of it as if everyone on the Real World casts a shadow in the Shadowfell, so the ghost is surrounded by shadows that are real people). The ghost can see shadows of real things, and move objects/interact the same way an ethereal ghost could (possibly messing with people's dreams? Through mirrors? Talk in spooky voice?). For it to get real physical however, it's gotta manifest.

When they Manifest, they are fully visible, and behave the same way that their statblocks state.

 

[Najo]

I like that idea. How would you go about handling the rules for a ghost in the shadowfel interacting with the material plane?

 

[Rechan]

I like that idea. How would you go about handling the rules for a ghost in the shadowfel interacting with the material plane?

Easiest solution? All the limits that "Mage Hand" has.

Treat people communicating "Across the Veil" as say, trying to hear people whispering (I.e. a perception check). Having something like a Mirror gives a +5 to this exchange on both ends. In an area that the Shadowfell is close to (Graveyard, haunted place, etc), no perception checks are necessary.

The thing that makes me nervous about you converting Ghostwalk is that, if people are playing Ghosts, then their PCs get Insubstantial and Phasing. Which is really freaking powerful. I honestly have no clue how to balance that.

 

[Najo]

Yeah, that is a concern I have too. I think the point of the ectoplasm rules is to avoid that sort of thing. The manifested ghost is harmed and moves like a material creature, and then uses powers on the ghost path to become insubstantial and phase for short periods of time. Then the rest of the time when they are not manifested, they are in the shadowfel and unable to influence the material plane phsyically.