HELP: subdual coup de grace

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Why?



There are no rules for converting subdual damage taken in a fight into normal. You can knock someone out with your fists, but you can't kill them (unless it's with a CdG after they've been knocked out, and you allow fatal damage).

I never stated there were rules to do this. I was making them up.

You can do leathal damage with your fists, you just take a -4 to hit.

As far as having the massive damage save on a crit, I suggested this to reflect that sometimes non lethal damage can kill you. Every now and then you hear a story about some little-leauger that dies because he got hit in the chest with a soft ball. Not hard enough to even knock the wind out of someone, but if it hits you in just the right place at the right time, it can kill you. Thats why sternum gaurds became very popular. I was suggesting that if you wanted a crit to be less controlled, and capable of accidentaly killing unintentionaly, forcing the massive damage save could reflect that unforseen weakness in your body.

 

[Xeriar]

I would say that a subdual attack can be used to make either a lethal CdG, or a subdual one, depending on what the attacker wants. The mechanic is flexible enough to represent both these cases: 1) getting your hands around someone's throat and strangling them (lethal CdG); 2) coshing them on the back of the head (subdual CdG).

Or you could just hold his mouth and nose closed, and wait two minutes.

 

[Magius del Cotto]

My take, without changing the rules:
Subdual damage is subdual damage. Critting with a subdual weapon would be the equivalent of knocking someone upside their head, or poleaxing (knocking the wind out of them) them, or nailing a nerve... Nothing inherently dangerous, but painful nonetheless. A coup de grace is the same way, but I'd only allow it if it were a subdual damage only or suitibly hilted weapon. In other words, no KOing them with bear claws.

 

[hong]

Or you could just hold his mouth and nose closed, and wait two minutes.

"That's a chip up the nostril, I'm afraid!"

 

[Romotre]

Haha...good reference

 

[Thanee]

Nothing official, but we allow subdual coup de grace with weapons suitable for subduing (like a sap or unarmed attack). Sneak Attack can be used.

A weapon that deals normal damage cannot be used in this way.

Rules are exactly the same as for the regular coup de grace, but the target suffers only subdual damage and will fall unconscious (rather than dead) on a failed save.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Weezul]

Awww

You mean my fighter with 18 str can not do subdual damage x4 on a coup de gras with a scithe?

 

[Macbrea]

Ok, there are no rules that allow you to do a CDG with subdual damage. By the rules you can do crit with a subdual damage weapon. Two examples of this are


Strike, Unarmed 1d3s 20/x2
Sap 1d6s 20/x2

Both of these weapon deal subdual damage and have a crit number. That crit number isn't there for a the fun of it.

If an opponent is helpless you can beat on them freely.

A melee attack against a helpless character is at a +4 bonus on the attack roll (equivalent to attacking a prone target). A ranged attack gets no special bonus. A helpless defender can't use any Dexterity bonus to AC. In fact, his Dexterity score is treated as if it were 0 and his Dexterity modifier to AC were -5 (and a rogue can sneak attack him).

By the rules of CDG you cannot make it with a subdual weapon. But your gamemaster can houserule that it is possible to knock someone cold with a subdual CDG. Otherwise, it just becomes silly set of dice rolling that will still result in the creature being unconscious. As attacks with a open fist will eventually knock someone out without a problem.


In the campaign, we had been playing my rogue ended up a better unarmed combatant then the monk in the party if the whole part was working together. The monk would strike for 1d10+3 damage upto 4 times a round. I would strike for 1d3+1+7d6 subdual damage upto 2 times in a round. Or real if I wore my gauntlets.