Help Twinking Out a 12th Level Monk

[mattcolville]

I thought about the Vow of Poverty, looks like it'd be good. Hadn't considered the Monk/Paladin. I'll have to spec that out and see how it looks.

I'm thinking about building a Githzerai Monk, a Human FIghter/Monk and a Human Pally/Monk. See how they look.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I recently played an unusual Githzerai Monk/PsiWar (there was to be some Lucid Cenobite in there from Hyperconscious, but the campaign imploded).

Since I had access to Dragon Compendium voume 1 (DCv1), instead of the usual, I burned feats on Weapon Focus: Bisento (a 1d12 x3 martial polearm with reach from a Rokugan D20 equipment book) and Pole Fighter (a Feat that lets you use a polearm as a monk weapon, including the whole Flurry of Blows thing. (Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes were his low-level bonus feats.)

When the PsiWar levels kicked in, the first power taken was Enlarge, which kicked the Bisento damage up a couple of notches. Intertial Armor & Force Screen were also part of the mix.

In addition, DCv1 had a Feat, Ring the Golden Bell, that let a monk use his unarmed strike at range- including all the abilities that were tied to his unarmed strike (like Stun attacks). INA was on the wish list as well...

The effect: The monk could control a large area of space with his Bisento and Unarmed strikes, and his high dex ensured a lot of AoOs and a lot of successful "bell ringing." His ungodly dex and psionic powers made him a hard target.

Simply a blast!

However, I have it on good authority that Thri-Kreen also make quite lovely monks...

 

[jcfiala]

You should check and see how your DM's going to rule on Gauntlets and monk abilities - does she see it as an unarmed attack (with possible magic enhancement bonuses) or as a simple weapon that makes an unarmed attack (and thus not useable with flurry of blows and monk abilities).

 

[mattcolville]

Oh man, a Thri-Kreen Monk. I've always wanted to play a Thri-Kreen. How does Flurry of blows work when you have multiple arms?

On a side note, I'm trying out the Gith Ascetic Monk in HeroForge and it claims I'm getting a +14 bonus to Jump checks, making my total Jump Check +30. Now, I don't mind a +30 to Jump,

Also, based on my preliminary findings...this guy is SICK. AC 28 with no armor and no magic yet. That seems...high for a naked 12th level dude.

I'm thinking of taking Axiomatic Strike and Extra Stunning as his two other feats, the first two being Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. If I've got it figured right, a Gith Monk with 2 race levels and 10 class levels gains 4 feats. 1 for my first class level, and another one at 3, 6, and 9. In two more levels I'll get another feat and I'll probably pick the Sun SChool tactical feat since it'll give me a free attack when I use my Abundant Step ability.

 

[mattcolville]

You should check and see how your DM's going to rule on Gauntlets and monk abilities - does she see it as an unarmed attack (with possible magic enhancement bonuses) or as a simple weapon that makes an unarmed attack (and thus not useable with flurry of blows and monk abilities).

Is there no actual rule for this?

 

[jcfiala]

Is there no actual rule for this?

There is a rule for this - apparently right now in the FAQ it says that gauntlets aren't good for flurry of blows - but it's a confusing corner of the rules, and making gauntlets useable as a 'monk weapon' because they deliver unarmed strikes is one way to balance the monk a little. (General feeling on these boards is that the Monk is a weaker combatant than the other fighting classes.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

How does Flurry of blows work when you have multiple arms?

I'd imagine it works pretty well! Their INA damage should be good, and they're pretty dexterous.

BTW- before settling on a Githzerai, I had also considered playing an Anthropomorphic Animal (Ape) from Savage Species. They, too, get huge Dex bonuses, and as I recall, they get Str & Wis bonuses and a natural attack as well. I mainly went with the Githzerai because I wanted to have a psionic monk- which Githzerai do quite well.

But an Anthro Ape Monk? Think Gorilla Grodd...or King Gorilla... Raw physical power dexterity and wisdom in one package...and some of the other Anthros are crazy too. Go with a Bear or Elephant, and you could have +8 - +12 Str. The Felines- like the Cheetah- have high dexterity and incredible speed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Three points of high debate:

1. gauntlets - are they weapons or not? I treat them as weapons.

2. Improved Natural Attack - can a monk take it for his unarmed strike? I say no.

3. Can a monk with natural weapons (not considering unarmed strikes) "add" them to a flurry? I say no.

Your DM will need to respond to these three questions if you plan to consider using any of them in your character. That said, a githzerai monk has a certain appeal. I think a half-celestial makes a very good monk, too, but the LA hit is just too high. See if the DM allows the LA buyback variant.

 

[Wish]

Since you're willing to give up levels, I'd look at Kensai. If you get into it as quick as possible, you'll be monk 4/fighter 2/kensai 5, and you'll give up a little xp to make your hands into +5 equivalent weapons (maybe something like +2 holy magebane fists?).

A quirkier option is Tatooed Monk. You can get some very useful abilities.

For a straight monk, consider half-orc. The strength bonus helps quite a bit. Or you could go non-traditional and play a full orc. You'd take a hit on Wisdom, but another +2 strength is kind of cool. Ogre monk is also an option. -2 Dex, but a whopping +10 strength, and +5 natural armor, and +4 Con. Who cares about Int or Cha anyway? You're an ogre monk, your job is to rip people's arms off and beat them to death with their own limbs. At 12th level, you'd be ogre 6/ monk 6 (10 HD), with only +7 BAB, but a grapple somewhere in the range of +24 (assuming you took improved grapple). You don't take a wisdom hit as an ogre, so you'd probably have something resembling an AC, especially since you get more natural armor than you lose for dex and size.

 

[DM_Matt]

VOP and LA don't mix. VOP is designed to give you the equivalernt of your equiptment by CL, NOT your ECL, as you would otherwise have.



Updated Action Monk:
Concept: The purpose of this build is not only to do lots of damage but to cost your opponents the most valuable commodity in the game: Actions. By getting yourself lots of AOOs and using trip and/or stun, you can get many extra attacks as well as cost them multiple actions each time you face them. You also can do a whole lot of damage, epsecially if your opponents are evil. Focus on Str with decent wis and dex.

Human M10/F2

Regular Feats(12) : Monastic training: Fighter (Eberon, but strictly worse than the other monk multiclass feats in C.Adv...necessary though to get holy ki strike and fist of the heavens by L12)(L9) Improved Unarmed Strike(M1), Stunning Fist(M1), Combat Reflexes(M2), Dodge (L3), Improved Trip(M6), Defensive Throw(L6), Hold The Line(F2), Sacred Vow(HB), Vow of Poverty(L1), Fist of the Heavens (F1)

Exalted Bonus Feats: Nymph's Kiss (Ex2), Touch of Golden Ice (Ex4), Nimbus of Light (Ex6), Holy Radience (Ex8), Sanctify Ki Strike(Ex10), Holy Ki Strike(Ex12),

In spite of my previous warning about VOP and LA, this works even better as a half ogre at LA2/M11/F2, but alas thats not where you are starting.

Alternatively, the non-VOP version that can buy a Ring of Continuous Enlarge for 16k....


Human M10/F2

Regular Feats(12) : Monastic training: Fighter(HB) Improved Unarmed Strike(M1), Stunning Fist(M1), Combat Reflexes(M2), Dodge (L3), Improved Trip(M6), Defensive Throw(L6), Hold The Line(F2), Fist of the Heavens (F1), Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) (L1), Sanctify Ki Strike (L12), Improved Natural Attack(L9)

This build is probably better. You lose the +2d6 v evil from Holy Ki Strike (which you can pick up at L15 anyway), gain more flexability in your eq, and instead move your damage v everytihng form 1d10 base to 3d6 base, plus you gian the large size bonuses to your str and trips (though loss to dex), and can take ability focus on your stuns.