HELP?! What can I do to convice a DM to use PSI in his game?

[Psion]

Yes but your axe doesn't happen to be the only one in the world, and have a drastic effect on how the world works.

If psionics is so much like magic, then does it either?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yes but your axe doesn't happen to be the only one in the world, and have a drastic effect on how the world works.

Well, the psion isn't the only one in the world, either, if you permit it. There should be a community of them. And they don't have an effect on how the world works, beyond what any class can do (you don't allow rogues to exist in the campaign world, it's going to change how the world works, fer instance -- all stealthy guys would basically be rangers or NPC classes like Expert, so there would really be no trap-detecting dungeoneers).

As for the sorcery comment, for my milage, psions feel a lot more like 'inherent magic' than sorcerers ever did. They're not overpowered, but things like forced specialization, the focus mechanic, versatile powers, and psionic feats, make it feel a lot more personalized than a sorcerer usually is. They actually feel different from the Wizard. Which is why I'm more and more tempted to just ditch sorcs all together....though the two classes are quite similar ,the psion feels different enough (IMHO, in a better way) to exist, and there's always 'similar cultural themes.' If there's room for both a Fighter and a Barbarian, there's probably room for both a Sorcerer and a Psion.

Anyhoo, back on topic......

Talmun, how about you let us know the problem you're having with psionics, see if we maybe can't pad los's case? I mean, why doesn't your group like 'em (other than the fact that they are quite flammable, of course )?

 

[Meeki]

could always just play a halfing blackguard and ruin the party. (assuming its quasi good aligned) Then the Dm will cry and you can threated to beat him/her up until you can bring in a psion to straighten things out. Then have your psion kill the blackguard while he is busy sacrificing the children of the other party members. That way you can save the party, their children, and not have to beat up the DM. Another nifty thing to do is play a diviner who makes the group sit around all day while he scrys on everything and everyone they plan on doing and meeting in the near future. That always ticks a DM off, then you can beat him/her up and bring in a psion. Or or you could buy a herd of cats and play a druid and release them among your enemies every battle. I think attack cats are pretty cheap. That way when you finally are able to bring a psion in, it will be appreciated.

 

[buzzard]

If psionics is so much like magic, then does it either?

Who said psionics was so much like magic? I suppose you could make it a whole lot like magic, but the rules don't.

I suppose you could just call it a point based mage or something, but then would the feel of that satisfy the player?

Your axe example is truly well off the mark. More appropriate would be someone saying they want to use a subsonic sniper rifle from Spycraft. Sure the damage is only 1d8 like a bow, and the range increments are roughly the same, but there is an implied can of worms which comes a long with it.

buzzard

 

[buzzard]

Well, the psion isn't the only one in the world, either, if you permit it. There should be a community of them. And they don't have an effect on how the world works, beyond what any class can do (you don't allow rogues to exist in the campaign world, it's going to change how the world works, fer instance -- all stealthy guys would basically be rangers or NPC classes like Expert, so there would really be no trap-detecting dungeoneers).

My making it so that the world has a community of psions, you have changed the world. Is that not obvious?

Also, are you trying to say that manifesting mental powers, separately from magic does not change how the world works?

buzzard

 

[Talmun]

Talmun, how about you let us know the problem you're having with psionics, see if we maybe can't pad los's case? I mean, why doesn't your group like 'em (other than the fact that they are quite flammable, of course )?

Well, let me see...

1) Magic: Psionics, as already mentioned, is a variant of magic...for all intents and purposes it is magic. We already have both Divine and Arcane, do we really need another category? Is there anything you can do with Psi that you can't do with the core magic system by designing a new spell or adapting an old one?


2) Flavor: This one is more a question of personal taste...
The flavor/feel of psionics has always struck me as either very sci-fi or very 'new age'...neither of which I like in a fantasy game. I don't think I would have as much of a problem with Psionics in a Gamma World/Alternity type setting or in a modern fantasy setting (i.e. Shadowrun). It just seems to stick out like a sore thumb...imagine a psion (crystals and all) running around in Middle-earth.

3)...There are others, but work calls, I'll have to finish this post later.

 

[LiKral]

Psionics brings a whole new book of rules to the table that everyone has to learn, especially the GM. And it isn't much different from sorcery, so why bother?
Why not run a short game yourself, in a heavily psionic world like Athas, to demonstrate to your group why psionics is cool enough to make the effort?

 

[jerichothebard]

Not reasonable? I'll tell you who would be unreasonable, any player who us so much of a jackass as to pull such a selfish stunt, that's who would be unreasonable. If a 2/3 majority of players in a game are against a feature that has been banned, the reasonable and mature thing would not be to selfishly insist upon including that feature.

I can't say I like your tone, here, but I certainly agree with the sentiment. If you are so desperate to play a psion, find a group that likes psionics. Don't force an already established group to bend to your whim. (As ironic as that might be).

To do so is really a) egotistical, b) selfish, and c) likely to result in trouble quite quickly.

jtb

 

[Thanee]

c) likely to result in trouble quite quickly.

Especially if there is also a sorcerer in the group...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Piratecat]

Hey now, I said we could talk about it, that's not a guaranteed yes.

I'm of the opinion that if a player really wants to use a particular concept, then it's usually worth the DM trying to allow it if it fits into the world. For instance, Wulf wanted to play a shaman in my game, one who can see spirits. This didn't previously exist, but I couldn't see any reason not to add it. Of course, with it comes the unfortunate fact that not all spirits are nice, and so that shaman spontaneously introduced a whole bunch of interesting plot hooks when he joined.

If I had a player who really wanted something like psionics, I'd probably handle it the same way. Allow it provisionally, and make its arrival into a slew of interesting plot hooks and story threads. For instance, did you know that the pressed brain of a psion is necessary for making intelligence-boosting tomes, and there's this cabal of wizards who really want to get smarter....

As Buzzard said, allowing psionics will doubtlessly change your world. That's not necessary a bad thing if you think through the ramifications and embrace them to make the game more fun for everybody.