Help with a crossbow build tips
- Thread starter Binho
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Thanks for the replies.
Psirogue is a good idea. And it gets hand crossbow proficiency too.
I'll take a look at the targetteer class. It is just a theoretical build, so, everything is allowed.
About using bayonets or spikes, i prefer not to go melee and, if that's the case, i would waste my actions getting out of there. The better option would be able to use the crossbow in melee too (I'm pretty sure that some prestige class allowed this).
As much as i like the psirogue//swift hunter idea, maybe that won't be possible just because of the feats. So far I need: Crossbow Sniper (Weapon Focus), Dead Eye (Point Blank Shot), Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Knowledge Devotion and Master of Poisons. Also, some way to get free raw poison would be awesome like the psirogue power/spell/animal companion. Rapid reload is not priority, because of the quick loading weapon ability. Hand Crossbow Focus could be a possibility, but that comes with another question: which xbow is a better approach?
I thought about many combinations:
1-At low levels (1-5) use one great crossbow and one hand crossbow initially, them drop both and draw a repeating heavy xbow. At midlevels (6-12), use one great xbow and one double hand xbow, then drop and draw a quick-loading light xbow. That would just be possible with Weapon Group Feat and TWF tree. Added to it some way to get my bolts as touch attacks. Fell Shot feat could be a way...
2-Go with two hand xbow, drop and draw a heavy xbow at low levels. Mid levels use two double hand xbow. Higher levels go for two quick-load hand xbows.
3-Forget the whole TWF thing and use repeating heavy xbow initially. Retrain the feats needed and go for quick load hand xbow for mid to high levels.
The Archery Handbook mentioned that ranged attacks can have a lot of attack bonus without some range Power Attack to make use of it. But how can I get that attack bonus?
Psirogue is a good idea. And it gets hand crossbow proficiency too.
I'll take a look at the targetteer class. It is just a theoretical build, so, everything is allowed.
About using bayonets or spikes, i prefer not to go melee and, if that's the case, i would waste my actions getting out of there. The better option would be able to use the crossbow in melee too (I'm pretty sure that some prestige class allowed this).
As much as i like the psirogue//swift hunter idea, maybe that won't be possible just because of the feats. So far I need: Crossbow Sniper (Weapon Focus), Dead Eye (Point Blank Shot), Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Knowledge Devotion and Master of Poisons. Also, some way to get free raw poison would be awesome like the psirogue power/spell/animal companion. Rapid reload is not priority, because of the quick loading weapon ability. Hand Crossbow Focus could be a possibility, but that comes with another question: which xbow is a better approach?
I thought about many combinations:
1-At low levels (1-5) use one great crossbow and one hand crossbow initially, them drop both and draw a repeating heavy xbow. At midlevels (6-12), use one great xbow and one double hand xbow, then drop and draw a quick-loading light xbow. That would just be possible with Weapon Group Feat and TWF tree. Added to it some way to get my bolts as touch attacks. Fell Shot feat could be a way...
2-Go with two hand xbow, drop and draw a heavy xbow at low levels. Mid levels use two double hand xbow. Higher levels go for two quick-load hand xbows.
3-Forget the whole TWF thing and use repeating heavy xbow initially. Retrain the feats needed and go for quick load hand xbow for mid to high levels.
The Archery Handbook mentioned that ranged attacks can have a lot of attack bonus without some range Power Attack to make use of it. But how can I get that attack bonus?
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
It's a theoretical build, but what kind of tricks are you allowing with this? There's the Aptitude weapon enhancement from Tome of Battle which will allow you to take one weapon-specific feat's effects and apply them to another weapon. The usual trick with this for archers is taking Hand Crossbow Focus and applying it to a Great Crossbow so it can be loaded as a free action and thus used with full attacks.
If you want to go the TWF route with hand crossbows, there's the self-loading enhancement I believe and then just use repeating hand crossbows, which you can get free proficiency with via Targetteer's two exotic ranged weapon profs. Doubling your attacks will probably lead to more damage than using the great crossbow.
As for attack bonuses, I'm not totally sure on just how high things can get depending on optimization. 40's before rapid shot/arrow storm/TWF wouldn't be out of place though.
For a human starting out at 18 dex, you'll get a +6 enhancement from an item, +5 from levels, +5 from tome, for a base of 34 which is a +12 bonus. BAB would be +20, Point Blank Shot adds +1, Weapon Focus adds another +1, Ranged Weapon Mastery adds +2, Haste adds +1, the weapons could have +5 or so...
Psirogues get Compression, which can take you down two size categories for +4 dex. It also grants +2 hit thanks to the size change in general. I'll add up more math as I think about it. Precognition, Offensive, can get you up to +5 on attacks if you manifest it as a swift action, or +7 if you go standard.
38 Dex = +14 modifier. +20 BAB, +1 PBS, +1 WF, +2 RWM, +1 Haste, +5 weapon, +2 size, +5 insight = +51. TWF will lower that by 2, double crossbows (assuming they work like Rapid Shot and grant the extra attack, see below) are another -2, and Arrow Storm is -5, for a total of +42. As for number of attacks it's 4 for BAB, +1 Haste, +1 double crossbow, +2 Arrow Storm, +2 for (I)TWF, and double all that for 20 attacks, assuming I've done my math right and such. The damage one each of those is +35 from Dex, +1 PBS, +2 Weapon Spec, +2 RWM, +5 weapon, for 45 at least. 45 x 20 = 900. That's before we factor in Sneak Attack dice by the way. If all attacks are Sneak Attacks, you're looking at 20 x 7d6 = 140d6 = average of 490 damage.
The wording on double crossbows is wonky, but I think we can all agree it doesn't double your attacks. The additional part at the bottom says it's supposed to be like Rapid Shot, but the wording is odd enough that it can be interpreted that it only allows you to make two attacks as a full round action. If you're of the opinion it works like Rapid Shot though and allows for a full attack routine then it might be worth it.
If you want to go the TWF route with hand crossbows, there's the self-loading enhancement I believe and then just use repeating hand crossbows, which you can get free proficiency with via Targetteer's two exotic ranged weapon profs. Doubling your attacks will probably lead to more damage than using the great crossbow.
As for attack bonuses, I'm not totally sure on just how high things can get depending on optimization. 40's before rapid shot/arrow storm/TWF wouldn't be out of place though.
For a human starting out at 18 dex, you'll get a +6 enhancement from an item, +5 from levels, +5 from tome, for a base of 34 which is a +12 bonus. BAB would be +20, Point Blank Shot adds +1, Weapon Focus adds another +1, Ranged Weapon Mastery adds +2, Haste adds +1, the weapons could have +5 or so...
Psirogues get Compression, which can take you down two size categories for +4 dex. It also grants +2 hit thanks to the size change in general. I'll add up more math as I think about it. Precognition, Offensive, can get you up to +5 on attacks if you manifest it as a swift action, or +7 if you go standard.
38 Dex = +14 modifier. +20 BAB, +1 PBS, +1 WF, +2 RWM, +1 Haste, +5 weapon, +2 size, +5 insight = +51. TWF will lower that by 2, double crossbows (assuming they work like Rapid Shot and grant the extra attack, see below) are another -2, and Arrow Storm is -5, for a total of +42. As for number of attacks it's 4 for BAB, +1 Haste, +1 double crossbow, +2 Arrow Storm, +2 for (I)TWF, and double all that for 20 attacks, assuming I've done my math right and such. The damage one each of those is +35 from Dex, +1 PBS, +2 Weapon Spec, +2 RWM, +5 weapon, for 45 at least. 45 x 20 = 900. That's before we factor in Sneak Attack dice by the way. If all attacks are Sneak Attacks, you're looking at 20 x 7d6 = 140d6 = average of 490 damage.
The wording on double crossbows is wonky, but I think we can all agree it doesn't double your attacks. The additional part at the bottom says it's supposed to be like Rapid Shot, but the wording is odd enough that it can be interpreted that it only allows you to make two attacks as a full round action. If you're of the opinion it works like Rapid Shot though and allows for a full attack routine then it might be worth it.
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The interpretation I give to double cross bows is that you can only shot two bolts in the same turn if you have at least two iterative attacks. But, if you (assuming BAB > 6) shot a double hand cross bow on the right hand and a hand cross bow on the off hand (a lot of hands...
) you have 3 attacks. So, let's assume that you have proficiency with double hand xbows, hand xbows and TWF, with BAB +6/+1. Your total bonus would be -2 for TWF with light weapon, -2 inherit of the double xbow (instead of the usual -5 in the second attack), +6 (BAB) + dex mod = dex mod +2/+2 (first hand) and a +4 (off hand), totalizing 3 attacks. Keep note that I do not put the penalty of double xbows on the off hand, because it is not a double version. Also, note that the double cross bow do not give an extra attack, but the off hand weapon does. That's how i see it.
I've decided to make the build based on some levels of targeteer and ranger (and the arcane spells that some feats and variants can give) in one side of the gestalt and go for psirogue on the other side.
Does anyone knows some Prestige Class that can suit this build?
Follows short scenes that inspired the theme of this build:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BEZX6AprZI"]The Hancock Collection Van Helsing Crossbow - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS9N8dEdZCQ&feature=relmfu"]Van Helsing (2/10) Movie CLIP - Welcome to Transylvania (2004) HD - YouTube[/ame] (skip to 1:25)
I just hope to hit more than Van Helsing...
) you have 3 attacks. So, let's assume that you have proficiency with double hand xbows, hand xbows and TWF, with BAB +6/+1. Your total bonus would be -2 for TWF with light weapon, -2 inherit of the double xbow (instead of the usual -5 in the second attack), +6 (BAB) + dex mod = dex mod +2/+2 (first hand) and a +4 (off hand), totalizing 3 attacks. Keep note that I do not put the penalty of double xbows on the off hand, because it is not a double version. Also, note that the double cross bow do not give an extra attack, but the off hand weapon does. That's how i see it.I've decided to make the build based on some levels of targeteer and ranger (and the arcane spells that some feats and variants can give) in one side of the gestalt and go for psirogue on the other side.
Does anyone knows some Prestige Class that can suit this build?
Follows short scenes that inspired the theme of this build:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BEZX6AprZI"]The Hancock Collection Van Helsing Crossbow - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS9N8dEdZCQ&feature=relmfu"]Van Helsing (2/10) Movie CLIP - Welcome to Transylvania (2004) HD - YouTube[/ame] (skip to 1:25)
I just hope to hit more than Van Helsing...
Wyvernhand
First Post
I don't think you should PrC at all. Between Psirogue on one side and Swift Hunter on the other, just leave as is.
One trick I got from another build:
Burrowing Power is pretty interesting. Lets you ignore Line of Effect. You can Telekinetic Thrust a handful of poisoned crossbow bolts though a perfectly good solid wall. Just set up a little Remote Viewing or similar power, line up your shot, and shank them Matrix style.
One trick I got from another build:
Burrowing Power is pretty interesting. Lets you ignore Line of Effect. You can Telekinetic Thrust a handful of poisoned crossbow bolts though a perfectly good solid wall. Just set up a little Remote Viewing or similar power, line up your shot, and shank them Matrix style.
