Help with a homebrewed 1/2 Ogre

[Thurbane]

HI all,

I'm at it again with tinkering with races for my next campaign.

There are a few things I don't like about the 1/2 Ogre as presented in Races of Destiny (or Savage Species, for that matter) - especially how they got uprgaded from LA +1 to LA +2. For balance reasons this is fine, but anything higher than a LA +1 race doesn't mesh well with my particular campaign, for reasons I'd rather not go into in depth.

Basically, I was thinking of basing my "new" 1/2 Ogre on the Half-giant from UA (and the exapnded SRD).

HALF-GIANTS


+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity: Half-giants are tough and strong, but not too nimble.

Giant: Half-giants are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person.

Medium: As Medium creatures, half-giants have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Half-giant base land speed is 30 feet.

Low-Light Vision: A half-giant can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Fire Acclimated: Half-giants have a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against all fire spells and effects. Half-giants are accustomed to enduring high temperatures.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Naturally Psionic: Half-giants gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.

Psi-Like Ability: 1/day-stomp. Manifester level is equal to 1/2 Hit Dice (minimum 1st). The save DC is Charisma-based.

Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Ignan.

Favored Class: Psychic warrior.

Level Adjustment: +1.

Now, I'll obviously make a few changes to this, to remove the Athas/Psionic flavour.

So how does this sound:

Abilties: remove -2 DEX, add in -2 INT and -2 CHA (+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA)

Fire acclimated gets dumped. Theyn instead gain a +2 save bonus against poison, as a dwarf.

Powerful build and size - Medium remain.

Naturally psionic gets dumped, in favor of a +2 racial bonus to Climb & Intimidate checks.

Psi-like ability gets dumped for the Toughness feat.

Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Orc, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.

Favored class: Barbarian

 

[Arkhandus]

Ultimately you're just making them stronger, not simply removing their Athasian flavor. Half-Giants were already a capable race for their +1 LA as-printed.

The Int/Cha penalty in place of the Dex penalty just makes them worse in things that they would already be poor at (due to the Level Adjustment, which reduces their effective skill points/maximum ranks, and their spellcasting ability if becoming a mage or priest). And it removes the bit of balancing for their Strength bonus (the Dex penalty hurt them in ranged combat, initiative, reflex, and AC, which are all at least somewhat important to any warrior-type). The stuff you give them in place of Naturally Psionic and Psi-Like Ability is more generally useful (though less specialized), so it only helps them rather than being useful only to those who choose a less-optimized path (that of a psion, wilder, or psychic warrior) than the race's best choices (barbarian, fighter).

I'd suggest leaving the Dex penalty in place and adding the Charisma penalty you already mentioned, but removing the Int penalty, IHMO.

 

[Spatzimaus]

It's not bad. Arkhandus' point about the INT/CHA penalties is valid under the core rules, since a low CHA doesn't hurt most classes. But IMC we added a house rule that made those penalties actually HURT. Specifically:

The stat bonus to your Fortitude save is (STR bonus + CON bonus)/2; your ability to overcome debilitating effects is as much about your muscle tone as it is your raw durability. Likewise, Reflex is INT and DEX (dex lets you dodge the fireball, int tells you which way to dodge), and Will is WIS and CHA.

So, under that system, trading the -2 DEX for a -2 INT, -2 CHA would actually be okay. The only other suggestion I'd make is to drop Toughness and replace it with something more interesting; heck, even Endurance would be an improvement.

---------

The core problem, though, is that it's an LA+1 race, and any positive level adjustments hurts mostly in spellcasting and skills, both of which this race seems designed to ignore. Now, IMC we made an ECL+0 Half-Ogre. It ended up being somewhat similar to the Half-Giant (not inspired by, we made our Half-Ogre first), but with these changes:
> The stats were STR +4, DEX -2, CON +2, INT -2, WIS -2, CHA -4 (theoretically balanced, and while a -2 can sometimes be ignored, a -4 just can't.)
> No fire bonus, no psionic abilities
> Darkvision, not low-light. (Ogres have both.)
> Favored Class: None (and yes, this DOES hurt.)
> Powerful Build is cut in half; that is, if being Large gave you a +4 bonus to grapple checks, the Half-Ogre gets +2. And instead of using weapons as if they were a size larger, Half-Ogres just use the "plus-size" weapons like Bastard Swords and Dwarven Waraxes as if they were martial weapons (i.e., instead of a 1d8 Longsword, he could use a 1d10 Bastard Sword). All equipment is 50% heavier (and more expensive), but carrying capacity increases 50%.
> Half-Ogres are subject to anything that would affect humanoids OR giants. So, charm person works on them, and so do the various racial bonuses vs. Giants. This really, really hurts.
> To help offset some of this, they got 2 points of Natural Armor and the Endurance feat. This was actually meant to mimic the extra d10 hit die the race got under AD&D.
> +4 to Intimidate, -2 to any other "social" skill (Gather Information, Perform, etc.)

It was a bit on the strong side, although we also boosted the other races slightly (Half-Ogres got both Darkvision and Low-Light vision AND could get Limited Scent as a Feat, for instance), so it worked out fine. One player went Half-Ogre Ranger/Horizon Walker, for instance. The point is, by keeping it LA+0 through big drawbacks, skills and spells were still just viable enough to want to keep the mental stats from being dumped.