Pathfinder 1E Help with a Power Gamer [Pathfinder]

GM Dave

First Post
Exploiting weakness or matching up opponents that will pound the player is not too hard.

Examples:

A group of level 1 Sorcerer's (4 to 6) with Magic Missile or Negative Channeling Clerics will bypass his defenses (there are some monsters like Helm Horrors that work in a similar way).

I can go with a Barbarian style build Str 16 +2 Race = 18, Con 14 which rages to Str 22 Con 18. That gives +6 Attribute to hit plus levels (4 to 6) is +10 to +12. A feat of weapon focus for +1 and then toss in a bonus or two from Bless (or Bardic Song or other morale booster) and Magic Weapon and I've got someone(s) hitting on +13 to +17.

I've got an opponent coming up soon that will be tossing lightning bolts (wife he inadvertently abandoned in his back story but made no attempt in four levels to contact and has been trying to date other NPCs in the mean time).

I can attempt immobilizer spells (hold person and such) but Will Saves are his best save and his Eidolon has given him Evasion which makes Reflex saves all or nothing (web spell might work).

I've used shadows with their touch attacks to send him scurrying for cover behind the rest of the group.

The balancing act is to not put too much of this stuff in but enough to make sure that he is not cake walking. Still, the more of this stuff I put in the more the rest of the group may feel a price for example if the Barbarian design gets loose or takes out the Power Gamer then the question is will the rest of the group be able to handle the barbarian?

I agree, that I can't really ask the player to give up the concept or what makes the concept fun. He has almost half a year invested in the character and it would be wrong to end it when I've got ways to play on the weaknesses.

I also have a fair amount of CR to work with as the group is seven players (though I need to be flexible to handle nine as a couple of players float in from week to week).

The number of fights they go through in a day goes up and down which means I can often put in larger fights.

I wrecked up half the party last Saturday with a fight against skeletons that were +3 to hit and +2 dam wielding long spears and halberds. The group's cleric is a negative chaneller, most of the group did not have blunt attacks, and the skeletons got the drop on the group as they moved along a hallway. After the fight it took most of their healing magics to put them back into fighting shape and that was the first encounter of the set.

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You are correct the damage reduction is alignment and not magic. My mistake.
 

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What you should do is introduce a higher level lawful rival summoner with a normal Eidolon who constantly pushes his buttons. It may not solve the problem but it will be hilarious!
 


korjik

First Post
How do the other players feel about this issue?

I think this is the important point. Do the other players care? Have they complained? This is to some degree a group problem, not a DM problem. If they dont care about the issue, then leave it alone. I would tell the player that his character is a problem, and that if someone else starts having a problem then something will be done.

Maybe you should bring the rest of the players in on the discussion. If they dont have a problem, then there isnt one. If they have a problem with the PC then you have more of a lever to change or get rid of the character.
 

Oryan77

Adventurer
I've been wondering if completely ignoring what the powergamed PC does in combat would solve this sort of issue. Not everything really, but just don't attack his PC, and when he attacks, don't actually reduce any hitpoints off of the enemies. If he uses his nonpowergamed abilities (maybe spells or whatever), then play it out as normal.

When they make their AC super high, they are trying to be invincible. What better way to be invincible than to simply not get attacked?

And if he wants to deal all kinds of damage, the enemy should have the appropriate amount of hitpoints to compensate for that level of an attack. So rather than make it unfair for other players by raising the CR, just pretend the enemy had more hitpoints to balance with the powergamed PC by assuming any damage that PC does is knocked off of the HP the enemy would have had at a higher CR.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=6687992]GM Dave[/MENTION]
Yeah something doesn't look right about the character build.

DR 5/magic doesn't appear to even be an option.

PFSRD said:
Damage Reduction (Su)
An eidolon’s body becomes resistant to harm, granting it damage reduction. Choose one alignment: chaotic, evil, good, or lawful. The eidolon gains DR 5 that can be bypassed by weapons that possess the chosen alignment. The alignment must be opposite to one of the alignments possessed by the eidolon. At 12th level, this protection can be increased to DR 10 by spending 2 additional evolution points. The summoner must be at least 9th level before selecting this evolution.
Source: Advanced Player's Guide

An AC of 27 seems unusually high. My understanding is that the max AC bonus a 4th level summoner could have from their synthesist eidolon is +6 (natural armor +2, improved armor evolution +2, level armor bonus +2). That would mean that somehow that the 4th level character would need an AC of 21 without armor, unless I am mistaken. And that seems far fetched.

PFSRD said:
Improved Natural Armor (Ex)
An eidolon’s hide grows thick fur, rigid scales, or bony plates, giving it a +2 bonus to its natural armor. This evolution can be taken once for every five levels the summoner possesses.
Source: Advanced Player's Guide
 

SmuggleNutz

Explorer
Also look at what the character is giving up to have that build. There is a reason why the given abilities replace the regular ones, and that may be where the "price is being paid" so to speak:

From d20pfsrd

Fused Eidolon replaces the class’s eidolon ability, bond senses, and life bond.

Fused Link replaces Life Link.

Shielded Mage replaces Shield Ally.

Maker's Jump replaces Maker’s Call and Transposition.

Greater Shielded Meld replaces Greater Shield Ally.

Split Forms replaces Merge Forms.

As many others have said, it also helps a great deal to check the math. In our campaigns here each player has to provide a copy of their current character sheet to the DM, which is easy enough to do with PDF and such. I assume the DM is double checking everything, and we don't have any characters near the power of what this one appears to have.
 

GM Dave

First Post
@GM Dave
Yeah something doesn't look right about the character build.

DR 5/magic doesn't appear to even be an option.



An AC of 27 seems unusually high. My understanding is that the max AC bonus a 4th level summoner could have from their synthesist eidolon is +6 (natural armor +2, improved armor evolution +2, level armor bonus +2). That would mean that somehow that the 4th level character would need an AC of 21 without armor, unless I am mistaken. And that seems far fetched.

So, I decided to sit down tonight to think through how he could achieve an AC of 27.

I did not expect 'trickery' as he is a former GM that I've played with and is pretty meticulous on his usage of rules when building things. If anything, I'm more a 4e style of GM when it comes to monsters and tend to go more with numbers that I can feel are right instead of RaW.

So, I started with what I knew.

Serpentine Form gives Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13 (other attributes do not matter) for Synthesis. AC +2 Natural Armour. Darkvision, Evasion, Bite, Climb, Reach, Tail, and Tail Slap (all free)

Level 4 advances Str/Dex +1, AC +2 (can specify Armour or Natural Armour though I think he would choose Natural Armour).

Level 4 Shielded Meld which is Synthesis ability giving +2 Shield Bonus to AC.

This gives Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13 and AC 10 + 3 Dex + 4 Natural Armour +2 Shield = 19

7 Points of Evolution

1pt Natural Armour +2
1pt Resistance Fire 5
2pt Increased Ability Dex +2
3pt Damage Reduction DR 5 / Lawful

This gives Str 13, Dex 19, Con 13 and AC 10 + 4 Dex + 6 Natural Armour +2 Shield = 22

Now, if he has defined all the Eidolon bonus coming from Natural Armour then he can use the spell Mage Armour to get +4 Armour bonus which will stack with Natural Armour.

AC 10 + 4 Dex + 4 Mage Armour + 6 Natural Armour +2 Shield = 26

Cat's Grace (a spell that I know he has declared to use from time to time for a short bonus) would provide +4 Dex or AC 28.

One thing that I did realize going over the synthesis form is that I'll have to be more strict if he wishes to cast spells in Eidolon form. The Synthesis description says that he needs to have limbs to do Somatic Casting. That would mean the usage of Cat's Grace would burn 1 min of time in just changing into Eidolon form.

I also have not calculated any thoughts of feats which could give a few more evolution points.

It seems to be reasonably fine on paper and a rough estimate of what is possible.
 

SmuggleNutz

Explorer
So it certainly is possible to get numbers where he is getting them, but as you found out, "Serpentine Form" affects spell casting. My guess is that there are other things in that build that can also be taken advantage of (by you, that is). Sounds like you are on the right track.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Yeah the AC 22 I can buy and the cat's grace, I just wasn't aware that an armor bonus (in this case from Mage Armor) stacked with natural armor.
 

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