Help with class ability giving Time Stop to Fighters at 1st level

[RUMBLETiGER]

At 20th level Stare Down becomes a Supernatural Ability and functions even when the fighter is asleep or unconscious etc though at a -20 to the intimidate roll. For the Stare Down to function the creature must visually notice the asleep fighter and be close enough for normal body language to occur.

Two assassins climb into the window of the Inn, where our Fighter sleeps. They speak in sign language and hushed tones.

Assassin 1: "Whoa! Ok, here's where you go up and kill him."
Assassin 2: "What? Hell no, you do it!"
Assassin 1: "Come on, he's asleep! And just one man!"
Assassin 2: "Are you crazy? This guy is giving me the creeps! You shoot him from afar."
Assassin 1: "What, and have him catch it in his beard? I feel like he's figuring out how to kill us with his eyes closed."
Assassin 2: "Alright, screw this. I don't care how much they're paying us, somebody else needs to take out this guy."

They exit out the window they came into.

Fighter: "Zzzzzzz.......snizt.. zzzzzz" *drool*

 

[kitcik]

I can't give you XP, but this would make a good scene in any campaign...

 

[Dandu]

Two assassins climb into the window of the Inn, where our Fighter sleeps. They speak in sign language and hushed tones.

Assassin 1: "Whoa! Ok, here's where you go up and kill him."
Assassin 2: "What? Hell no, you do it!"
Assassin 1: "Come on, he's asleep! And just one man!"
Assassin 2: "Are you crazy? This guy is giving me the creeps! You shoot him fro afar."
Assassin 1: "What, and have him catch it in his beard? I feel like he's figuring out how to kill us with his eyes closed."
Assassin 2: "Alright, screw this. I don't care how much they're paying us, somebody else needs to take out this guy."

They exit out the window they came into.

Fighter: "Zzzzzzz.......snizt.. zzzzzz" *drool*

I have been told that my snoring can be quite intimidating.

 

[Visigani]

The answer is obvious. Don't go giving him supernatural powers, give him tricks based on his feat selection.


A good hard look at the Fighter class reveals that it's a class that focuses on damage, and debuffs (Tripping, sundering, bullrushing, disarming, etc etc) as well as a few AoEs (such as whirlwind attack, and the cleaves).


However, the failure in the developers was to make the fighter "too" regular. Sure he's amazing at what he does, but he's amazing in the constraints of a normal person.

A rogue, however, also a "normal" person develop abilities that border on superhuman. The Fighter never reaches that degree of aptitude.


Starting at level 3 and every even numbered level thereafter the Fighter would be able to choose "maneuvers" based on his or her feat selection.

Here's a few suggestions, usable once per encounter:

A Fighter that followed the feat path "Power Attack, Improved Sunder" could at level three choose "Sunder Mastery", which would allow the fighter, once per encounter force a Save or Die against an opponents item.

"Shield cover" allows the fighter to add his shield bonus to his reflex save and grant him evasion for that attack.

"Field Medic" allows a fighter, as a full round action, to field dress the wounds of any character under 50% health duplicating the effects of a cure light wounds spell as an extraordinary ability.



This is how you'd bring the Fighter up to par.

 

[Jeffrie]

I'd look at the Psion's Brain Lock power, Expanded Psionics Handbook p. 81 for something similar to compare to.

Questions:
1. I'm having trouble tracking the duration of the dazed effect of Stare Down. Once a target or targets are dazed, is it for that 1 round? Or for as long as you stare at them?

2. If you are Staring Down one group of opponents, can you still attack another one not within your Stare Down group?

3. Do you provoke A..'s from opponents not being Stared Down that attack you?

Thanks for the notes on Brain Lock. I want to make the reach farther than move, but move makes sense. Since a fighters move can be optimized some i guess it's ok.

Answers:
1. I had envisioned only one round. Then the Fighter can perform the act again. (I question weather that's too powerful, but when you think what a wizard can do little seems too powerful)

2. Yes (i think?) technically, but of course you would lose whatever bonus. It could be used to stall groups, then bolt the other way . . .

3. Stare Down is a Con check. It implies vigor and fortitude, and i doubt it would provoke any AO, but i can see where taking damage/etc would invoke a Fort Save or fail the Stare. (good point)

RUMBLETiGER, i just read your joke. It's really funny. Of course at a -20 penalty for sleeping only low level assassins would fail, but that's pretty much how i saw it play out. heh.

I can also see the fighter fall to one knee, and some rube runs up to stab him, and a glance from the fighter dazes him for one round.

 

[Jeffrie]

The answer is obvious. Don't go giving him supernatural powers, give him tricks based on his feat selection.


A good hard look at the Fighter class reveals that it's a class that focuses on damage, and debuffs (Tripping, sundering, bullrushing, disarming, etc etc) as well as a few AoEs (such as whirlwind attack, and the cleaves).


However, the failure in the developers was to make the fighter "too" regular. Sure he's amazing at what he does, but he's amazing in the constraints of a normal person.

Starting at level 3 and every even numbered level thereafter the Fighter would be able to choose "maneuvers" based on his or her feat selection.

Here's a few suggestions, usable once per encounter:

A Fighter that followed the feat path "Power Attack, Improved Sunder" could at level three choose "Sunder Mastery", which would allow the fighter, once per encounter force a Save or Die against an opponents item.

"Shield cover" allows the fighter to add his shield bonus to his reflex save and grant him evasion for that attack.

"Field Medic" allows a fighter, as a full round action, to field dress the wounds of any character under 50% health duplicating the effects of a cure light wounds spell as an extraordinary ability.

This is how you'd bring the Fighter up to par.

I like your suggestions a lot, but most of them don't address the list from the OP, from the faraway thread;

Needs interaction besides AC vs DAM *
Needs reach when in melee *
Needs area effect *
Needs Saves and/or methods similar to Evasion/Mettle
Needs 'action economy' *
Needs resistance/recovery from conditions
Needs attack and defense against magic *
Needs all these things to scale *
*these points are addressed by the class feat Stare Down

I'm for evasion or mettle being options, and it's in the list. I also have another Class Ability for resistance/recovery, but what i like about the Stare Down concept is that it gives the fighter so many of the things on the list.

When i tried to suggest ideas like yours, the brilliantgameologist laughed at me, and reminded me that a wizard can toast half an acre a dozen times a day. That's the kind of power i'm trying to stall with Stare Down. Stare Down hits multiple opponents in a radius up to 40' or more. Fighter currently has nothing like that. A fighter20 who somehow optimized Con and movement could be shootin' +40 against 20 targets up to 100' radius... . . I call that up to par with spellcasting.

My real question is: Is it broken? would it beat everybody that wasn't Wis oriented?

 

[Dandu]

Paladins wouldn't worry much about it. Nor would mindless undead, constructs, plants, other mindless things, etc.

 

[Jeffrie]

Paladins wouldn't worry much about it. Nor would mindless undead, constructs, plants, other mindless things, etc.

Of course, nor would it truly terrorize targets with plenty of moral buffs. Bards and Clerics would probably be able to figure ways around it.

We wouldn't want one ability to do everything.

Still I'm encouraged that the someone as knowledgeable as you didn't shoot it down as too strong, or too weak..

yet

 

[Dandu]

Expanding on intimidate is something others have done, for example, Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command Barbarians and the Zhentarim Soldier fighter builds. Obviously, more things need to be added, like some skill points and a better skill list, and other means of attacking enemies than hitting them or intimidation. Some of the Knight's class features like the ability to treat threatened areas as rough terrain for the enemy would help.

I personally like giving him the ability to enchant his own weapons like a Kensai, with the option of changing the enchantments like a Soulknife.

 

[Jeffrie]

I also need to go edit the dazed mention above. Shaken (the original condition of a fail) is -2 saves/attack/etc. The penalty for failing by 10 or more is Dazed is loss of a turn (but with retention of AC); hence my reference to Time Stop.

(done)

I agree that the fighter needs more skill points, and at least a few more skills (spot, listen). Threatened REACH as rough terrain! Now there's a start. How far can i throw this sword? Really cool with archers, heh. Anyway, real fixes HAVE to affect more than melee to really make a fighter 'tier 3'.