Help with class ability giving Time Stop to Fighters at 1st level

[Visigani]

I like your suggestions a lot, but most of them don't address the list from the OP, from the faraway thread;

Needs interaction besides AC vs DAM *
Needs reach when in melee *
Needs area effect *
Needs Saves and/or methods similar to Evasion/Mettle
Needs 'action economy' *
Needs resistance/recovery from conditions
Needs attack and defense against magic *
Needs all these things to scale *
*these points are addressed by the class feat Stare Down

I'm for evasion or mettle being options, and it's in the list. I also have another Class Ability for resistance/recovery, but what i like about the Stare Down concept is that it gives the fighter so many of the things on the list.

When i tried to suggest ideas like yours, the brilliantgameologist laughed at me, and reminded me that a wizard can toast half an acre a dozen times a day. That's the kind of power i'm trying to stall with Stare Down. Stare Down hits multiple opponents in a radius up to 40' or more. Fighter currently has nothing like that. A fighter20 who somehow optimized Con and movement could be shootin' +40 against 20 targets up to 100' radius... . . I call that up to par with spellcasting.

My real question is: Is it broken? would it beat everybody that wasn't Wis oriented?

Are you looking to improve the Fighter Class, or make your Fighter a Wizard slayer?


A Fighter should never BE a Wizard and the notion that the Fighter should be "burning down acres of farmland" entirely undoes the class. At that point, just roll a Wizard and write Fighter down instead.



If the goal is to improve the Fighter's versatility, then my suggestion is where it's at.

Consider your criteria when held up against my "Sunder Mastery" suggestion.


Sunder mastery would satisfy Interactions besides AC vs. DAM, interacts with the action economy, and provides potential attack and defense against magic. In other words, forcing the Evil Wizard's staff to "Save or Die" can be incredibly potent when used correctly and could potentially improve as the player levels as the weapons/shields/armors they would be wrecking via save or die would become that much more powerful.... hence a greater debuff.

Further, there's no reason why your idea couldn't be incorporated into mine as a Fighter Trick....


Most of the things you suggested could become fighter tricks.

But if you're just looking for a Wizard by a different name, keep looking.

 

[Jeffrie]

Consider your criteria when held up against my "Sunder Mastery" suggestion.

Sunder mastery would satisfy Interactions besides AC vs. DAM, interacts with the action economy, and provides potential attack and defense against magic. In other words, forcing the Evil Wizard's staff to "Save or Die" can be incredibly potent when used correctly and could potentially improve as the player levels as the weapons/shields/armors they would be wrecking via save or die would become that much more powerful.... hence a greater debuff.

Further, there's no reason why your idea couldn't be incorporated into mine as a Fighter Trick....


Most of the things you suggested could become fighter tricks.

But if you're just looking for a Wizard by a different name, keep looking.

Part of what i'm looking at is conversation that i've had.

I had actually noticed Sunder Mastery as a potentially useful piece, but i'm starting to get tired, and probably didn't give it my sharpest eye. That's the kind clear thinking that i'm trying to achieve. Whack the wizards staff, and he's at least pouty, right?
Actually, it'd work REALLY well with Stare Down. Daze, move, Sunder Mastery? yeah.

I'm sure your Fighter Trick suggestion has it's merits, though i would be doing us both a disservice if i attempted to engage it now.

perhaps tomorrow.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

"Er, no sir. I do not want to fight you. I will go home now and change my soiled trousers."

Jeffrie, I'm liking your Stare Down idea. It's a clean and easy battlefield control ability where the Fighter can choose to remove certain opponents from combat briefly. A wizard could cast grease spells to make opponents fall prone and be removed from combat for a round or so, giving the Fighter an ability to do Battlefield control is in no way overpowered from where I see it.

Would those immune to Fear effects be immune to this ability? You're not necisserally frightening your opponant (though many are being frightened), you are causing your opponent to consider the wisdom of engaging in combat with you for those 6 seconds.

I'd assume that those who do not see you (Blinded, sightless with Blindsight, etc) are immune to the effect? or does a growl from the Fighter's Gravel-like voice have the same effect? What if the Fighter comes up behind an opponent who is looking at his ally, hears him coming but not necisserally able to see the stare? Is that opponent not within the Stare Down cone?

 

[Jeffrie]

Jeffrie, I'm liking your Stare Down idea. It's a clean and easy battlefield control ability where the Fighter can choose to remove certain opponents from combat briefly. A wizard could cast grease spells to make opponents fall prone and be removed from combat for a round or so, giving the Fighter an ability to do Battlefield control is in no way overpowered from where I see it.

Would those immune to Fear effects be immune to this ability? You're not necessarily frightening your opponent (though many are being frightened), you are causing your opponent to consider the wisdom of engaging in combat with you for those 6 seconds.

I'd assume that those who do not see you (Blinded, sightless with Blindsight, etc) are immune to the effect? or does a growl from the Fighter's Gravel-like voice have the same effect? What if the Fighter comes up behind an opponent who is looking at his ally, hears him coming but not necisserally able to see the stare? Is that opponent not within the Stare Down cone?

Thanks for noticing the battlefield control aspect. It's one of the things i was leaning for.

ANSWER: My thoughts were that Stare Down would NOT be vulnerable to resistance to magical fear, since it's not magic, but would be vulnerable to moral and will buff/saves of other kinds (let me know if there's a hole in this thinking). As you said, even someone who is immune to magical fear should consider the wisdom of engaging in combat.

ANSWER: Good question about blindsight/etc. I would think that if the player could convince the DM that his Con was being witnessed he could activate Stare Down. So if you could "gravel voice" for a full round while doing nothing else, then i suppose yes (for listeners), and the same could be said for the full attack option. Kinda stretching it. . . but, i don't see where it would help often.