Help with Custom Spell effect Wondrous Items creation rules

Spirit_Crusher

First Post
Hi everybody. Tomorrow evening I'm going to make a character for an upcoming campaign. It's going to be my first PF character, but I've played a decent amount of 3.5 back in the day.
I've just re-read the PF handbook and the APG, and I've got a doubt:
let's say that I want to create an Item that allows me to cast a low level spell any time I want. Rules say spellcaster Level x Spell level x 2000 gp, am I reading right?
So, let's say the spell I want to use at will is cast with an Immediate Action... Does the item allow me to cast it as Immediate, or is it Standard?

In particular I'm thinking about the spells Gallant Inspiration and Hero's Defiance.
 

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The caster level x spell level x 2,000 gp cost is a guideline, yes. Some spells would become unusually "broken" if they can be at will, so the GM is well within his rights to change the cost or even forbid the item altogether. Though not mentioned in Pathfinder, the 3e rules that established the cost explained that this cost is based on the idea that an "at will" item will be used about 5 times per day. For example, a Ring of Invisibility is more expensive because it is likely to be used numerous times per day.

If allowed, the item should act exactly like the spell. In the two examples you gave, that would be an immediate action (like a Ring of Feather Fall). Next I'll give my opinions on the specific spells you are looking at. Your GM may think differently.

Gallant Inspiration is very similar to Invisibility... it will likely be used every round if it's usable at will. Its minimum caster level is slightly higher than Invisibility and it has similar utility, so I would price it at about 25,000 gp. It activates as an immediate action as the spell, limited to once per round (to keep it from being broken still).

Hero's Defiance is essentially a "caster Paladin cannot die until out of Lay on Hands or out of this spell" spell. Practically speaking, it probably won't be used more than 5 times per day and it's no good unless it's worn by a Paladin. It still seems like a pretty powerful item for the 4,000 gp guideline cost. Every Paladin alive would want one, so I could see high demand pushing the cost up to 8,000 or even 10,000.
 

The intention of those rules is that the player and the GM work together to figure out a balanced item cost. Some spells work with the given formula, but lots don't. Mostly the cost should go up from those given by the formula, and that's the GM's decision, not something the rules dictate and the player should be bringing to the table in terms of "what it should cost". I'd avoid adding any custom items like this until you and your GM are both pretty comfortable with the system.

At-will spells tend to be abusable, simply because the power of the item is only limited by the number of actions available.

Activating a magic item is normally a standard action. Making it an immediate action usually increases the cost of the item significantly.

The two spells you're talking about in particular are Hero's Defiance, a paladin-only spell that lets the paladin spend a use of lay on hands to heal himself as an immediate action, and Gallant Inspiration, a bard spell that lets you add +2d4 to any attack roll or skill check that fails within Close range as an immediate action.

I wouldn't have any objection to an item that let a paladin cast Hero's Defiance a few times per day, though at-will I'd probably balk at - paladins are pretty tough to kill now anyway, and giving a paladin a buffed lay on hands for every lay on hands they have seems a bit excessive to me. One or two times a day, though? Sure, not a huge problem at the high end of a minor magic item, say around 6k-8k. I'd probably have it occupy an amulet or helm slot.

Gallant Inspiration I'd be much more leery about. It's basically a +2d4 to all attack rolls and skill checks at the cost of an immediate action, because the degree of success doesn't matter much in Pathfinder - just whether or not you succeeded, and Gallant Inspiration gives a +2d4 to any check that didn't succeed. As a bard spell, it's reasonable enough - bards don't get a ton of spells, and giving allies a bonus is what a bard is all about. As an item that another character can use, I'd be pretty hesitant, and certainly not at-will. I'd compare it to items that grant hero points, as that's essentially what it's doing, though to a lesser extent. The immediate action requirement typically isn't huge, particularly for a non-caster, since non-casters usually don't have much to do with swift actions anyway. Heck, most core classes in general don't do much with swift actions - the classes in the APG, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat usually have more swift and immediate action things to do than anything in the CRB. Casters start to care about them at higher levels when they start using Quicken Spell, but until then only a few spells use swift or immediate actions.
 

Thanks for the answers. I agree very much with both. An at-will Gallant Inspiration seems out of the line, given a 2nd level pearl of power is 2000 gp and on a Bard could be used to similar effect (more versatile though).

My current version of the item is: normal cost, but you can only have it as a Charges item, not as an "at-will" use activation. So 5 uses would be 16.000, 10 uses 32.000.
Seems reasonable.
Probably doing the same for the Hero's Defiance one would work.
Opnions?
 

As a GM I would certainly not allow the at-will gallant inspiration amulet (the other spell is troublesome, but workable). I would cap the uses-per-day at 3 and probably price it at around 15k to avoid early game abuse.

If I was a player on a game that lets PCs buy those items at 15k, I'll probably try to convince all the party members to buy one, because Gallant Inspiration is THAT good (I am currently DMing a game with a lvl 9 bard that has the spell, its BANANAS, the barbarian who deals 2d6+40 DMG hasn't missed an attack in a long while).
 

Someone missed the superscript 2. The Gallant Inspiration has a duration of instantaneous. Therefore it is not available as a continuous item. It gets pushed back to the "Command Word" + "charges per day" category. So, 2nd level * caster level 4 * 1800 / (5/charges per day), or 14,400 gp for 5 times per day, or 2,880 gp for once per day. And the item consumes a body slot, likely a ring, unless it is made slotless at double the price. That particular spell is worth spending 28,800 gp for five uses a day as slotless. It is one of those items that will be very useful throughout a career.

The paladin's spell gets the same treatment as well. 360 gp for one charge/day, 1,800 for 5/day. A generous GM may, on a whim, allow the 30% reduction in cost as it is a paladin only item. Extra self only healing for a paladin is not overpowering. As it is consuming his lay on hands with each usage, it is self limiting anyways.

Another tidbit: A swift action and immediate action are the same category for "you only get one per combat round". So, if the paladin has used a swift action lay on hands to heal himself this round, the "swift/immediate action" has already been spent for the round, negating the item.

PS: 2nd level pearls are 4,000 and not usable by bards. They are for casters who memorize.
 

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