Help with House Rule Elves and Dwarves ???

[Hackenslash]

Hi all,

I am having difficulty with the Dwarf and the Elf in my new campaign. I do not like some of their abilities and racial traits but can not find a good, balanced way to promote them in any other light than that which they already are. Nor am I going to use the 3.5 rules as I will not be getting them in time for the start of my new campaign. I am only concentrating on the Elf and Dwarf from the standard races as I feel that the Gnome and Halfling are ok as well as the Half Orc but would maybe alter the Half Elf, based on the way I decided to alter the Elf to begin with. Now I have had some thoughts but I am worried that these may be too over balancing to the campaign.

Dwarf: as stated in the 3.0 PH. with the addition of:

Weapon Familiarity: Dwarven War Axe, which gives automatic exotic weapon proficiency and a plus 1 to hit.

Free Feat at 1st level: Endurance.


Elf: as stated in the 3.0 PH. with the addition of:

Weapon Familiarity: Long Sword and Long Bow(not all bows) which gives automatic proficiency and a plus 1 to hit.

Racial Skill Bounuses: +10 to Spot and +10 to Listen.

Half Elf: as stated in the 3.0 PH. with the addition of:

Human Skill Bonus: +2 Points at 1st level then +1 point per level.

Racial Skill Bonuses: +5 to Spot and +5 to Listen.

So has anyone else made any modifications to the standard races and if so, what were they ? and how did they effect the campaign ? Thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions.

 

[Grishnak]

Hi bud,
I like some of the changes, the half elf especially as you may have seen in a post that I think half elves suck!! But I do think the elven racial skill bonuses are a bit too high at +10 each. I know why you think of them so (Legolas) but in giving the elves, half elves and dwarves new things don't you think you'll be making the gnome, half ork and halfling unwanted races??
Imo if 1 race gains something then another race should also benefit somewhere along the lines, like the half ork losing less stats just for a +2 strength. I also do realise that halflings do gain some skill points but it's no where near the pluses your elves will be receiving. Also why does the dwarf gain the endurance feat? No other standard race receives a feat other than humans and thats to make them more appealing to play with a choice of any feat.
Anyway keep on working and we'll all tell you to jam it 1 day or another hehe
Later bud

 

[green slime]

Well, first off; Balance can't be achieved, it is only a mirage. That said, want you try to achieve is a decent facsimile of balance.

What you really want is flavour.

+10 to skills as important as Listen and Spot is huge.

The +1 to hit is massive at low level. Especially as Elves get it in two weapons, a ranged and a melee weapon.

Elves will be very popular PCs in your campaign with this setup.

I shall post the particulars on my campaign later, when back home.

 

[green slime]

OK Here are my house rules for Fey (kind of Elves) and Dwarves

Problem is that both of these races are extinct IMC, but I wrote them up anyway, in case some mad powerful PC decides to dash off and save them.

I should note that the campaign starts off with 3rd level characters

Fey
They were ancient, and they lived almost forever. However, they have been extinct for almost as long.

Fey are resistant to Insanity, but are far more likely to be tainted. Fey suffer only half the loss in Sanity Points that would otherwise be lost. Taint affects them twice as fast as it corrupts any other creature.

Str +0
Dex +2
Con -2
Int +0
Wis +0
Cha +2

5–6 feet tall (Medium-sized) Fey
Fey are creatures of Chaos, and are thus always Chaotically aligned.
Fey that have acquired taint, beyond that of their character level, cannot regain their humanoid shape, but are stuck in their animal/plant form. (they have alternative shapes as the Spiritfolk of OA)

Speed 30 ft.
+2 racial bonus to Listen, Spot, and Search
Auto search for secret, hidden things when within 5 feet.
Low Light Vision
As they are Fey, not humanoids, they are unaffected by the many spells that target humanoids specifically.
Favoured Class: Fey Sorcerer

Starting Characters gain:
1 Fey HD (humanoid) 6 hp + 1 Fey Sorcerer HD (+3 hp) = 9 hp +2 * Con modifier
BAB +0
Base Fort +0
Base Reflex +2
Base Will +4
3 x Int SCORE Skill points + 4 (Fey Sorcerer) + (chosen class) + 2 x Int mod

Constant Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Tumble, Hide, Move Silently

+1 Character Class (free choice).

Bonus Feats: Alertness
Language: Fey

Classes Available:
Fey Bard, Fey Sorcerer, Druid, Fey Ranger, Rogue, Blademaster.

(Fey Bard and Fey Sorcerers are more Druidic in approach. Blademasters are similar to Samurai.)

Dwarves

Were eradicated quite recently in a savage war against the human Empire.

Short, stocky, dour, serious, greedy, the adjectives used to describe this race are beyond counting. They are a hard-working breed, with a particular affinity for things of the earth: Rocks, Metals, and Gems. The are also one of the most technologically advanced races, and guard their secrets well. Had the dwarves shown a more than passing interest in the surface world, they may well have conquered it long ago. Instead they are far more interested in retrieving the treasures from the bowels of the earth , hidden there at the time of creation by Dwalinor their God.
Dwarves are hardy and resistant to the corruption of Taint. Unfortunately, their minds are surprising weak, and they suffer twice the loss of Sanity Points that would otherwise be lost. Dwarves have entire institutions devoted to curing those afflicted by insanity.

Str +0
Dex +0
Con +2
Int +0
Wis +2
Cha –2

4–4,5 feet tall, heavy set, with large beards.
Dwarves are creatures of Law, and as thus, are required to have a Lawful component in their alignment.

Favoured Class: Fighter

Starting Characters gain:
1 Fighter level 10 hp (all dwarves are trained in the art of war, all are expected to protect their dwellings against the depredations of the Insectoids) + Constitution modifier.
BAB +1 (Fighter level)
Fort +2 (Fighter level)
Reflex +0
Will +0
8 Skill points + 4 x Int mod, + Chosen character classes.
+2 Character Classes (free choice of Dwarven Classes).

At tenth level a Dwarf character gains the “Magical Artisan” feat, if they possess at least one Item Creation feat

Speed 20 ft.
Darkvision 60 feet
+1 racial attack bonus to Insectoids
+4 Dodge bonus vs Insectoids.
Stonecunning: +2 on checks to notice unusual stonework.
+2 racial bonus against poison.
+2 racial bonus vs spells, spell-like effects, and psionics.
+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks
+2 racial bonus to Craft checks pertaining to stone or metal
+2 racial bonus on Alchemy checks
Bonus Feats: Endurance, Run
Language: Dwarven
Constant Class Skills: Appraise, Autohypnosis, Craft (Blacksmith), Craft (Armourer), Craft (Weapon Smith), Knowledge (Dwarven History), Stabilize Self.

Classes Available: Fighter, Dwarven Ranger, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, Noble, Expert, Hearthguard.

Dwarven Rangers have spells more suitable for subterranean environs: Earth spells!

Humans
In this campaign, all Human Player Characters start as 3rd level characters.

Humans are the most versatile of races, and as such their choices are reflected in this.
They gain no changes to their starting stats.
Humans are 5-6 feet tall in general
They live about 80 years.
They gain one extra skill point per level, and a bonus feat at first level.
They may choose any two skills as background skills, that are always regarded as class skills.
They speak the language of the Empire: Imperii
They can choose amongst the following classes:
Aristocrat (must be taken at first level), Cleric, Fighter, Monk, Paladin (you must first be an aristocrat), Ranger, Rogue, or Magician.


There are other races, still alive...

Equipment available is quite different between the races as are the choices of Feats. Humans have the greatest number of available feats.

 

[Hackenslash]

Thanks for the relpys...

To Grishnak - Not finished yet and may make further changes. This was only the first draft and I will present the final draft to the group(before play commences) when I have made the the final adjustments to the races more balanced. The reason for the Dwarf getting the Endurance Feat was to counter balance the major bonuses I had given the elf, plus it seemed like a good way to represent the hardworking and tough nature of the Dwarf as compared to the other races. I will be changing the stat altering for Half Orcs(maybe +2Str, +1Con, -2Int, -2Cha) but think that Halflings are ok the way they are and as for gnomes, well I think they are fine too. But I will have to admit that it is not easy to make changes and some races may be more attractive now, than they were before, depending on your style of play and what you look for in a race. But hopefully you will play a race for the roleplaying experience not just what benefits they get. See ya Thursday Dude !!!

To Green Slime - I have read your posts with great interest and I must admit to being very impressed with your racial traits and alterations. My campaign will not have any of the standard races boarding on extinction but will not be as numerous as the Human race and therefore more inclined to isolationism(not necessarily the whole race, though ?) within their own bounderies, apart from say maybe the odd adventurous few who brave the frontiers seeking glory and adventure. Maybe the odd Ghetto of Halflings and Gnomes etc.. within major human cities but certainly not too many outside of their stated home lands. The information you have provided regarding your "Fey" race has given some food for thought regarding a "New Race" I am toying with and planning to introduce into my new campaign, but will be a "Half Fairy or Fey" creature as a result of a binding with a Human and a Fairy type creature with some bonuses from each race but naturally being quite small in stature. The bonuses have not been finalised yet but would be very different to Halflings and Gnomes in that they would have a highly magical nature, more so than an Elf. Thanks again for your ideas....Cheers !!!

 

[Snoweel]

Well, first off; Balance can't be achieved, it is only a mirage. That said, want you try to achieve is a decent facsimile of balance.

What you really want is flavour.

Thank you for saying this.

I agree that choices are only as balanced as your campaign focus.

And personally, I scale most choices down in power. If they don't become a viable option for the powergamer, too bad. There are NPC classes; there may as well be NPC races as well.

Fey that have acquired taint, beyond that of their character level, cannot regain their humanoid shape, but are stuck in their animal/plant form. (they have alternative shapes as the Spiritfolk of OA)

Surely you mean Hengeyokai. Spirit folk are without alternate forms.

Hah, and my OA is still in Uppsala. Pucko!

 

[Fenes 2]

Just one question: If you boost dwarves and elves that much, what about humans? Their bonus feat is meaningless compared to a free EWP and weapon focus and endurance in case of dwarves, not to mention the WF feat for two weapons elves get, whose effective 20 bonus skill points for listen and spot all but render obsolete the human skill point advantage (net gain for humans is 3 points over 20 levels).

 

[Angcuru]

Sounds like you're trying to uber up the dwarves, elves, and half-elves. Which is all well and good. Restrict their availability, and play them as they are depicted in Tolkien's stuff: High and mighty don't mess with us-style badasses. Humans are just, well....human.

 

[Ravellion]

All personal opinion, but here goes.

I wouldn't give any race a +1 to hit with any weapon. You will not only make the race very attractive for fighting classes, but also pidgeonhole characters into using those weapons too much. A dwarf might want to use a warhammer, and an elf might want to use a different sword, but with the bonus, going with the bonussed weapon is too hard to pass up for most players.

The half elf is a lot stronger thatn the PHB. It loses 2 skill points in comparison to humans and a feat. The skill points lost are actually exceeded upon by the bonusses, and the saving throw bonus and Low Light Vision are well worth the feat. I'd take a half elf over a human anyday. Perhaps give them just the 4 skill points at 1st level, but then they have to do with Class + Int skill points?

Half Orc +1 Con? Are you going to give Orcs +2 con? I'd give them something a bit less easily min maxed if you feel the need to give them anyhing at all (the CON change is basically begging for "odd scores go here"). Perhaps minor resistance to Cold (1 or 2 per round), or a resistance to poison, or the ability to pick up the scent feat (see DMG), which is actually quite strong.

The Elf... Perhaps make him even stronger and make them +1 ECL?

 

[Hackenslash]

ok, Back to the Drawing Board.....!!!!

Thanks to "Fenes2" and "Ravellion" for pointing out some flaws in my new racial modifiers. I will go back to the drawing board and re-think my ideas, so that the races are, well in my humble opinion, as balanced as I would like them to be. To be honest I was only really tring to alter the Elf as I felt that they lost something in the transition to 3.0 edition. I ended up altering the other races as a consequence of altering the elves. No worries I'll get it right soon enough. Keep the ideas coming...I will re-post the revised racial modifiers when they are ready, with hopefully a good reason as to why they are that way....Cheers All.