D&D 3E/3.5 Help with my Drow Swashbuckler (3.5)

[Herobizkit]

+1 Mithral Breast Plate (1350 gp) and +1 heavy steel shield (1170 gp) gives AC 23. That's 2520 gp so far.

Mithral Cost Modifiers

• Light armor +1,000 gp
• Medium armor +4,000 gp
• Heavy armor +9,000 gp
• Shield +1,000 gp
• Other items +500 gp/lb.

It's a quibble, but I believe medium armor has a +4000 gp value to standard armor. You've appeared to have statted a breastplate using the light armor modifier.

 

[Dandu]

Ah, thought something felt wrong about that. Thanks.

 

[pawsplay]

So... what's this about you saving money again?

I was making a comment about people lowballing the effectiveness of the Duelist. As it is, the Duelist has spent 27,000 gp more, by your math, for a vastly superior AC versus touch attacks, higher damage (presuming your Swashbuckler is not using TWF to fight with the heavy shield with nonproficiency), higher initiative, etc. I picked some basic, reasonable choices. I could have gone with less Dex, instead boosted the amulet to +2, added a dusty rose ioun stone, and the Duelist once again has a higher AC.

In turn, I could challenge you to raise your straight Swashbuckler's AC to be the same against incorporeal touches.

I think my simple example holds up rather well.

 

[Dandu]

I was making a comment about people lowballing the effectiveness of the Duelist. As it is, the Duelist has spent 27,000 gp more, by your math, for a vastly superior AC versus touch attacks

That sounds like something that deserves calculating.

higher damage (presuming your Swashbuckler is not using TWF to fight with the heavy shield with nonproficiency)

I am sorry, I did not know that swashbucklers were not proficient with the heavy shield.

That being said, you forget that the nearly 70,000 gp of left over cash can't be used to boost damage.

That being said, the money from the shield can go to boosting AC by enchanting the two weapons used to be Defending, which gives a boost to AC again.

higher initiative, etc.

The +2 to initiative from Duelist is one of the few good things from the class.

Doesn't make up for the poor class features otherwise, though.

I picked some basic, reasonable choices. I could have gone with less Dex, instead boosted the amulet to +2, added a dusty rose ioun stone, and the Duelist once again has a higher AC.

By how much? One or two points? Wow, I am amazed.

In turn, I could challenge you to raise your straight Swashbuckler's AC to be the same against incorporeal touches.

Ghost Touch.

I think my simple example holds up rather well.

And the parents who sat next to me on Delta 559 thought their child was adorable. The rest of the plane disagreed.

 

[Dandu]

So, after your criticisms, I have decided to modify the Swashbuckler.

A Swashbuckler who starts off with, let's say, Dex 16 (increased to 18 by leveling) and +1 Ghost Touch Mithral Breastplate which gives +6 AC for 20,350. AC 20 so far.

A Ring of Protection +2 (8,000) gives AC 22. 28,350 gp so far.

Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4,000) now give AC 23. 33,350 gp so far.

Ioun Stone for +1 AC. We can has AC 24. 38,980 gp spent

Combat Expertise is required to get into Dervish. Can boost AC up to 29.

Note: Defending weapons can boost this further.

AC vs Incoporeal is 23 base (Dex, armor, ring), but can be boosted up to 28 with Combat Expertise.

Touch AC is 18 base, but can be boosted up to 23 with Combat Expertise.

Flatfooted AC is 18

Your stats were:
Normal: 26
Incoporeal: 25
Touch: 21
Flatfooted: 13

Total GP spent on AC: 38,980

Total GP left after boosting AC: 49,020 gp. Which is still a bit more than the 42320 gp you had left over.

A pair of +1 Defending scimitars for about 16,630 (can boost AC by 2), +4 item to increase Str, and +2 item for Con, and Boots of Speed use up the remaining cash nicely.

So you have higher initiative by 3. That's pretty much the only area you clearly come out ahead in.

Meanwhile, the Swashbuckler/Dervish gets more Con, more Str, Boots of Speed, higher AC... before Dervish abilities are factored into it. Your Swashbuckler6/Devish4 is weaker than a straight Swashbuckler alone in pretty much all areas. This is the definition of a -2 tier class.

 

[pawsplay]

The ghost touch property definitely closed the gap significantly, in line with what I was saying above. I am much more satisfied with this comparison.

You can boost AC further with Combat Expertise, defending weapons, etc. However, endlessly boosting AC is an academic exercise. I stopped with my sample duelist at a level where he could still beat level-appropriate ACs. It's not clear to me if this build is wielding the scimitars, in which case to-hit is going to be considerably lower than my build. If not, there may be rules interpretaton issues WRT to using defending weapons.

Just so you know, your tone is coming across to me as a little combative.

 

[Dandu]

It's not clear to me if this build is wielding the scimitars, in which case to-hit is going to be considerably lower than my build.

Attacking a young adult dragon defensively, devoting his entire dodge bonus to it, his AC would increase to 31 while his attack would drop to +17/+12 (1d6+9/18-20).

Attacking normally, the Swashbuckler/Dervish has an attack bonus of +17 (+15 with TWFing) for scimitars. (Flanking gets +4 to AB instead of +2 though) He has an AC of 24.

Using Boots of Speed, the AB is +16/+16/+16/+11 when attacking, for four attacks on a full attack, dealing 1d8+7 damage. AB is comparable, damage is comparable, amount of attacks greater.

AC vs the dragon is 26 after dodge bonus and Boots of Speed. 28 after using the Defending Weapons, which drops the AB by 1.

So, +15/+15/+15/+10, 1d8+7 damage, AC 28. Compared to your attacking defensively at +17/+2, for 1d6+9 with AC 31, who do you think is doing better?

Even assuming the Boots of Speed are not available, having been used up earlier, that's still +14/+14/+14/+9, 1d8+7, AC 27.

AB is 3 points below yours, and AC is 4 points below yours... which is not "considerable", as you claim.

Just so you know, your tone is coming across to me as a little combative.

And your tone is coming across as being stubborn and shortsighted. I think we can call it even in the department of unpleasantness.

 

[pawsplay]

And your tone is coming across as being stubborn and shortsighted. I think we can call it even in the department of unpleasantness.

I don't think we can. I'm trying to be nice to you.