Help with starting low-magic campaign?

[Bendris Noulg]

The biggest is to keep the CRs lower than usual for the levels as the PCs advance. Limited magic means the PCs will be weaker-than-expected against ANY foe of a CR higher than 1.

I wouldn't neccessarily agree with this statement. For example, if I (the GM) create a 10th Level CE Human Fighter with no magic items and put him up against a 10th Level LG Human Fighter PC with no magic items, there is no dispondancy regarding CR as the two are evenly matched. What the GM needs to assess is resources versus requirements. If a creature has DR5/Magic, and the PCs have no magic, it's going to be a tougher fight than usual, although this will scale down cosiderably with level gain (multiple attacks, Feats, Sneak Attack, etc.), while a DR20/Magic creature will be significantly tougher because of the increased minimum damage output required.

So while I agree that CR should be watched, to say that the PCs will be weaker than any foe CR1+ is essentially incorrect (assuming the GM is being fair and the NPCs are just as lacking in resources). It would be more accurate to indicate that, whether reducing or increasing the power of the PCs, the GM is taking it into his own hands to determine what the PCs are capable of facing and what they aren't, and should design encounters appropriately. In reducing the magic level, creatures become more potent based on how supernatural they are and how much supernatural is needed of the PCs to face them.

I prefer the "scarce but powerful" approach, myself. That means I don't adjust the PC classes, but I do reduce the availability of magic treasure and NPCs from whom the PC mages can learn their skills.

This is similar to mine (although I did tweek stuff you didn't, it seems).

Of course, that also means that PCs in my world fight more Humanoids with Fighter and Rogue levels than they do actual "monsters". When they *do* meet a real "monster-type" creature, it is usually one of the big encounters of the adventure.

Personally, I generally adhere to a 95% humanoid encounter rate (i.e., "Monsters" are the exception, although I consider Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, and the like to be "Races", not "Monsters"), with 95% of those encounters having not but mundane equipment and (occassionally) alchemical items.

Malin Genie:
As an alternate to forced multiclassing, have you considered what's called "The Rule of Odds", being that when a die-rolled result influences a spell (such as damage caused), any odd number rolled is read as "1" instead. Thus a fireball doing 5d6 gets the results 3 4 4 3 5 for 19 points of damage, but it instead read as 1 4 4 1 1 for 11 points of damage. The reason being that forced multiclassing can really get in the way of overcoming Spell Resistance; Halving SR doesn't really cut it since creatures with Spell-like Abilities have a set Caster Level, making it easier for them to penetrate SR. It would also make Spell Penetration more powerful.

Another possibility (this being one of my own changes) is to turn certain spells (animate dead, raise dead/resurrection/true ressurection, wish, miracle, etc.) into True Rituals (via Relics & Rituals); this keeps the spells around but makes casting them far less convienient, somewhat more expensive, and adds the risk of failure on the part of the caster.

Another system I use (although it's hard to implement without using Spell Points) is to have a spell cost more for Casting Level (i.e., the spell has a base cost for its minimum casting level, like 5th for a 3rd Level spell, and then each added Casting Level costs +1 point). This *could* be implemented with Vancian magic by, let's say, indicating that a spell is cast per the level it is memorized at (i.e., a fireball memorized with a 3rd Level slot is Casting Level 5, while memorized with a 4th Level slot is Casting Level 7), but that's a little book-worky for some folks. Regardless, the result is that the spell is just as potent but uses another mechanic besides Caster Level to scale upwards, presenting the players with a choice rather than a restriction (and while it doesn't make Heighten Spell more powerful, it does become more attractive).

Browse rest of thread...

I second Iron Chef's recommendation of Conan, as it provides a solid base-line for you to work from rather than trying to figure out what's "just right" with the Core system and trying to make it happen.

Brose some more...

tonym, I can understand that railroading DMs are a problem, but it's been my experience that the worst railroading I've dealt with (in fact, thinking about it, the only railroading I've ever experienced as a player) has been in games with plenty of magic and magic items (Core equivalent or higher). YMMV, and probably has, but attributing railroading as unique or overly-common to low magic games is, well, it's just a very mistaken view point. Probably influenced by personal experience, I'll grant that, but really, it's not as clean-cut as you think. Most railroading (which by comparing our differing experiences would seem to be a possible occurance in *any* magic-level campaign) is often the result of a GM that has taken the story-telling part of the GM's task too far; while handling the tasks of setting up the tale/scenario, he's forgotten that he has no control over the main characters of the story (i.e., the PCs) and scripts the encounter beyond the initial starting elements.

 

[Ylis]

Ylis - when I say 'spellcasting classes only every second level' I'm not suggesting that casters level up at half the rate, but that they are forced to multiclass with non-caster classes because they can only level up in a spellcasting class every second level (so it's not as if a 6th level character would be a 3rd level wizard - they might be a Ftr/Wiz 3/3 or a Rog/Wiz 3/3 or an Exp/Wiz 3/3 etc)

The percentile roll is a little too reminiscent of 1E psionics (shudder...) and I like allowing players to create, within the rules, whatever type of character they want, even if very unusual, so it probably wouldn't work for me.

Ah, my misunderstanding Well, the way I was *thinking* you had meant it seemed really unfair, lol, but I understand what you're saying now (I *can* be a little dense sometimes, lol).

I never played 1E, so I wasn't aware of your displeasure of it, lol. I usually use the percentile roll simply because it's an easy way to see if someone would have a chance at a "rare" class (which, I would assume, would be spellcasters in a low-magic game). I guess everyone has their different preferences for low-magic games, though, so sorry my suggestions won't help you out! Good luck anyway

 

[Silveras]

I wouldn't neccessarily agree with this statement.
...
So while I agree that CR should be watched, to say that the PCs will be weaker than any foe CR1+ is essentially incorrect (assuming the GM is being fair and the NPCs are just as lacking in resources). It would be more accurate to indicate that, whether reducing or increasing the power of the PCs, the GM is taking it into his own hands to determine what the PCs are capable of facing and what they aren't, and should design encounters appropriately. In reducing the magic level, creatures become more potent based on how supernatural they are and how much supernatural is needed of the PCs to face them.

Ow ! It's getting so a man can't even use a little hyperbole anymore.

True; my statement was intended to refer to non-character-type opposition. Almost any monstrous creature is going to be more of a challenge (than its CR indicates) to a party that lacks the expected amount of magic to use against it. Character-types, also with limited magic, would suffer a balancing reduction.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Ow ! It's getting so a man can't even use a little hyperbole anymore.

Naw, it ain't like that. More like my advise to the OP spun-off from your comment. I guess you were being general ("watch CR") while I was simply being more specific ("watch CR in these instances"). No harm done.

Oh, another tid-bit from my table for MG:

I have what's called the Mage Born Feat. Essentially, any character starting as a mage (which would include 3E Psi characters, but that's a flavor issue) gets Mage Born as a Bonus Feat. Any character that doesn't start as a mage at 1st Level must get it as their 1st Level Feat or they cannot take an Arcane Class ever.

Notes:
-Use Magic Device restricted to Divine items without this Feat.
-ECL races cannot be mages at 1st Level (they're ECL1+, duh), and thus must take the Feat to become one later.

The primary effect this has is to reduce multi-classing into a mage class, making "little mages" somewhat rare without impacting the existace of "full timers" very much.