Help with treasure parcels

[RangerWickett]

I've never actually run a 4e campaign with normal by-the-book treasure. I've run plenty of mini-campaigns where PCs started with items, but even as a player, the DM tends to kill us off within a level or two, so we all make new characters.

I could use some help. I get that I'm supposed to seed the adventures with treasure parcels (coins and magic items), but how does that actually play out long-term? Do PCs naturally end up with an amount of GP equal to the cost of an item of their level - 1? Are they expected to sell crappy magic items and buy replacements? How much wealth do they lose out from that? How often do you have to 'audit' your group to make sure they're at the right wealth for their level?

And how has the common/uncommon/rare change from Essentials changed all that?

Should I just say, "You all get Inherent Bonuses, and magic items or treasure are just icing on the cake?" Or will the party use their money to buy an unbalancing amount of non-armor/non-weapon/non-amulet doodads?

Does anyone else think this is complicated, or is it just me?

 

[Aulirophile]

In the DMG it recommends the wishlist method for sound economic reasons. Don't just hand out random items with no changes. Please, please, please, please, please.

Onward!

Let me share with you my list.

Level of Party
XP to next level
Every item the party will receive that level (paying careful attention to neck/armor/weapons that are not level appropriate yet)
Total Gold they are supposed to receive.

They get XP, I subtract it from the XP to next level. They get an item, I cross it off, they get gold, I subtract. When they level, I start a new list. If anything is left treasure-wise on the old list, they get it soon after.

Things I don't mind doing at all.

Inherent Bonuses, up to and including a +1 item bonus to damage every 5 levels to diversify options. I remove the enhancement bonuses from items and just leave the properties for weapons/armor/neck/etc. I like this system a lot, because I never really fiddle with treasure at all. They get a Flaming Longsword, they can use it forever. Generally I don't give out any magic items that aren't plot related, keep the cash as-is, and they can just make anything they want to. I still restrict the original level of items, so they still need the full whatever million for an item that is only level 30. Nearly all the cash goes to that. I might up the cash a bit actually.

Rather then handing out magic items I hand out "prepped residium stones" that with a single use of the Enchant Magic Item ritual become the appropriate item for that level. So a level 5 Prepped Residium Stone can make any item of level 5 or lower. I never worry about treasure at all, they basically pick their items.

I never track what they have. I track what they get, more then sufficient. If there actually is some kind of issue (never has happened to me) address it socially. Since you are a cool DM (if you do any of the above, you are) they'll respond well. Once they understand whatever the problem is, use a game mechanic to fix it (guards confiscate things and the city "forgets" to give certain items back). Pick your cliche. Then they know that is an issue and it won't repeat.

 

[Colmarr]

I get that I'm supposed to seed the adventures with treasure parcels (coins and magic items), but how does that actually play out long-term? Do PCs naturally end up with an amount of GP equal to the cost of an item of their level - 1?

Eventually, yes. Because the parcel system gives out enough gp for one item per level, it will actually take approximately 5 levels for each of the PCs to afford one.

Are they expected to sell crappy magic items and buy replacements?

Eventually, yes. As the PCs gain levels, they will sell their old items or convert them to residuum.

If you meant "Should I give them a magic dagger if they're all axe-wielders?", then no, you shouldn't. The Transfer Enchantment ritual can take up some slack, but you're shooting the game economy in the foot if you don't pay some attention to giving the PCs what they need.

Treasure parcels work very well with the 'wish list' system. Your players give you lists of what they would like, and then it's just a matter of you saying "It's Mattius' turn for a level 6 item. What's on his list?"

If you don't use the wish list system, or you fear that your players will abuse it, then filling treasure parcels becomes a lot more work.

How often do you have to 'audit' your group to make sure they're at the right wealth for their level?

If you manage to give out all 10 parcels per level, you shouldn't ever have to audit. You've done your job. If the players didn't keep notes it's their loss (unless of course you think they're cheating...)

Sorry, but I can't comment on the Essentials questions.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Actually in the Essentials Rule Compendium it replaces parcels with a simple series of rolls for each encounter. I forget how magic items work exactly (don't have the book handy) but I think there's x number of magic items of varying levels that should be seeded throughout the trip from PC level a to level b....that part is just like the parcel system.

However for coins/gems etc its a random d20 roll for each treasure type. (The probablilities and amounts change per PC level) So you kill your baddies, then roll a d20. If you get above a certain number then they get 2d4X10 gold. (just as an example) Then a second roll for gems, a 3rd for art objects etc. It's a little more random, but I understand it usually works out in the ballpark with the amount of treasure you'd have given using the parcels.

Upside: less bookeeping
Upside: Players can take turns rolling for their own encounter treasure, thereby never being able to accuse you of being stingy. Crappy rolls on their part = no treasure.

Downside: Ssometimes its a bit of a belief stretch as to how every group of creatures encountered pretty much barfs up gold pieces and gems once you kill them all.

 

[DNH]

The RC treasure system works like this for magic items: d20 roll for each encounter; 13-20 = one magic item of level + 1d4. That is static throughout all levels except for the very high ones (27th and up) as it would be impossible to give out a Level 32 item.

A point of interest: I really do not know why anyone bothered (bothers?) to design Level 1 magic items as it is not possible to receive them through the treasure parcel system or the more random Essentials system. Level + 1d4 is going to give you 2 through 5 even at the very start of the game. Even in the non-Essentials parcel system, the Level 1 parcel does not include a Level 1 magic item. I can only assume these items are in the game for completeness' sake or for the benefit of some very generous DMs who start their players with magic items from the off.

 

[drothgery]

A point of interest: I really do not know why anyone bothered (bothers?) to design Level 1 magic items as it is not possible to receive them through the treasure parcel system or the more random Essentials system. Level + 1d4 is going to give you 2 through 5 even at the very start of the game. Even in the non-Essentials parcel system, the Level 1 parcel does not include a Level 1 magic item. I can only assume these items are in the game for completeness' sake or for the benefit of some very generous DMs who start their players with magic items from the off.

I'd guess the expectation is that first-level items will be purchased, not acquired as treasure. If for some reason you've made to fourth or fifth level without acquiring one of the 'big three' items (or need a second weapon/implement for some reason), picking up a generic +1 item might be a very good idea.

 

[Riastlin]

Can't really help you with the Essentials aspect since both of my campaigns started before Essentials came out and replaced the system. However, in my games, the parcel system as outlined in the DMG has worked pretty well for me.

I do think though that I will almost certainly use the inherent bonus system for my next campaign as it frees up your magic item slots in the parcels quite a bit. The big thing you need to be careful of is that each PC really does need a +1 to each of the Big Three (armor, weapon, neck) every 5 levels or so. Without these items, the encounter balance will be thrown off quite a bit. Using the inherent bonuses though takes care of it so you have more room to sprinkle Wondrous Items and Waist Slot items into the parcels.

I'm a very big fan of the Wish List as well. Sadly though, my players are not. Many players feel that it just takes too much realism away to almost always have the found magic items be exactly what someone was looking for. Out of the 18 or so players that have been in my campaigns so far, exactly 1 has given me a wishlist.

With regard to audits, so long as you account for the Big 3 and follow the parcel recommendations, you shouldn't need to worry about audits unless you suspect your player(s) of cheating. The only real worry is that the coin the players receive, while certainly noteworthy, may go to waste if the players try to "save up" for that really big item. The more ideal use of gold is for things like rituals, non-Big Three items, and consumable items. They'll get a lot more bang for their buck than if they try to save it for an armor upgrade for instance.

As I understand it, the essentials system is good if you like purely random treasure and don't want to have to deal with daily item power limits. The DMG parcel system though is good if you want somewhat quicker treasure prep. I stayed with the DMG1 system when essentials came out because it meant I didn't have to worry about trying to figure out if the players had too many uncommon or rare items (plus I only have the Compendium as far as Essentials books).

TL;DR version: The parcel system in DMG1 works fairly well and is easy to use.

 

[kaomera]

Does anyone else think this is complicated, or is it just me?

I think it's complicated and sucks the fun and in fact the "magic" out of magic items.

Magic items have just become another aspect of character customization, and given that I don't understand why their distribution was left in the hands of the DM. Ideally you could just implement inherent bonuses, but the enhancement bonii of items are not the only factor at play. The majority of items are also going to have powers, effects, etc. and IMO those are pretty important to the balance of play. At the same time, the current system leaves open the real possibility of having to deal with (and hopefully the players will actually be managing them) a ton of lower-level items.

I just started a Dark Sun game at 11th level a few months ago, and if I had it to do over again I might try to find some way to house-rule a limit on what the PCs could get. At the same time, most of the PCs have busted out some of their lower-level "toys" in really interesting & fun ways. And there hasn't really been anything unbalancing, although with the loss of limits on item daily powers I think it's likely that would crop up sooner or later.

 

[Aulirophile]

I think it's complicated and sucks the fun and in fact the "magic" out of magic items.

Magic items have just become another aspect of character customization, and given that I don't understand why their distribution was left in the hands of the DM. Ideally you could just implement inherent bonuses, but the enhancement bonii of items are not the only factor at play. The majority of items are also going to have powers, effects, etc. and IMO those are pretty important to the balance of play. At the same time, the current system leaves open the real possibility of having to deal with (and hopefully the players will actually be managing them) a ton of lower-level items.

I just started a Dark Sun game at 11th level a few months ago, and if I had it to do over again I might try to find some way to house-rule a limit on what the PCs could get. At the same time, most of the PCs have busted out some of their lower-level "toys" in really interesting & fun ways. And there hasn't really been anything unbalancing, although with the loss of limits on item daily powers I think it's likely that would crop up sooner or later.

Remember you can't have an item that has the same daily, regardless of level. So you can't have a +1 and a +6 Frost Weapon, they have a daily that is the same.

LFR's rule is 1 item useable per level (you can own more, just can't use them). Would be a reasonable limitation.

 

[pemerton]

I've been using treasure parcels as guidelines, but not exactly as written.

For every level, the cash component of the treasure parcels sums to twice the cash value of two items of the level in question (except at level 3, where for some reason it is 50 gp short).

So one way to look at is is this: a level's worth of treasure is 6 items: L+4, L+3, L+2, L+1, L, L.

Alternatively, you can look at a level's worth of treasure being the cash value of those items, with a proviso that no item should be greater in level than L+4.

As I place treasures in my encounters, I tick them off my parcel list for that level. If, when the PCs gain a level, there is a deficit or surplus of treasure compared to what the parcel list for that level would suggest, I carry that over to the next level.

In order to reduce the amount of "random convenient item drops", every few levels I will have an encounter for which the reward is all the PCs getting a boost in their armour items or neck items or whatever. I treat the value of this as equal to the difference between the new item level and the old item level (as per Adventurers Vault), and tick that off the parcel list. The ingame rationales have been anything from "blessings from freed ghosts" to "an infusion of power and luck". Just recently I did a similar thing with weapons - the PCs met some witches who sent them off on a quest, but reforged their weapons first.

I also keep a list of whic PC has which items, partly to keep track of the enhancement bonuses, but also to keep track of who I should keep in mind for particular items.

As for placing items other than enhancement items, I use a mixture of wish lists and stuff that I think might be interesting/useful.