Helpful NPC vs. PC combat

[DonTadow]

Back again with another addition of the soap opera that is my campaign.

I have a player, Sadiyah, whom is an excellent role player, she really gets into her characters and feeds off of backstories and families. Her character has been somewhat rude to the pcs to say the least, which is somewhat understanadable considering her former hermit like status. She is xceptionally hard on the PC Forge. Recentlly the Forge found his long lost brother, an NPC named Four'ce. Four'ce is not too keen on humanoids and only has loyality to his brother.

To say hte least Sadiyah has a mouth on her. I"ve asked her three times to tone down her insults to the party. This week, the game ended with the party in the middle of a fotress. She, a weretiger, spent the entire combat taking off her leather armor. In the forum there's an ICC going on, which represents the 30 minutes taking place as they wait for the door to appear again.

In the forum she made what I considered another harsh comment to the forged, to the forged character immediately responded with a comment as to say "your comment was unjustly harsh for someone whom saved your life".

Since the Forged brother is there, I had him interject. As a DM, I wanted to give Sadiyah the player a taste of her own medicine.

Read here
http://www.chrystaria.com/site/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1051#1051

Now, here's the problem. She privately messages me and tells me that she understands why my character said that but she wants to attack the npc at the beginning of the game and if thats possible. Knowing how powerful the character is I warned her that the party did just finish a harsh combat and are in the middle of a harsh fotress, but she is free to do what she wishes with an NPC.

I can handle this a few different ways. I don't want to limit what a pc can do with an npc, but I know that this npc could easily kill her at his level, considering her limitations and the pc has the silvery tracery feat (which lets him deal regular damage to lynthropes. )

I don't think I can talk her out of hte combat at te beginning of game. I am also fearful that the pc forged will jump into the combat, however I plan for the brother to ask his brother stay out if/when combat begins.

So I can do a few things.

1. Have the forged brother kill the pc as he does not like her much anyway, (plus as a dm I think she overplays the low charisma of the character by making her annoying to everyone) .This may not take as much time as I think considering his abilties compared to hers.

2. Have the forged brother cast a sleep spell on her (which is techincally out of character considering he finds her rude, but also because the pcs are in the beginning of a fotress and he would not want to waste mps on frivielous things. However, this would keep the character alive, be the quicker solution and perhaps the player will learn to not be so harsh to helpful pcs and npcs.

3. Get into a time wasting subdual damage battle

So what should I do? Am I wrong to play the npc the smart way, should I hold back a bit to make the pcs happy, should I even allow it?

 

[genshou]

Sounds like this player doesn't understand that a low Charisma can mean reserved as well as rude. Whether he likes her or not, outright lethal conflict is out of the question if he doesn't have a serious evil streak. There are plenty of people I hate, but no matter what they said or did, I wouldn't kill them if I knew I could overpower them.

I'd suggest you have the NPC find a way to resolve the combat nonlethally and then proceed to humiliate the PC in an (extremely) minor way.

 

[shilsen]

I agree with genshou. Just have the warforged administer a beating and a warning and leave it at that.

 

[Arnwyn]

I like #1. An unpleasant individual physically attack someone doing lethal damage? Lethal damage should be returned.

If I were the DM in that circumstance, I'd have the NPC wipe the PC out. Consequences of actions, and all that.

 

[genshou]

I like #1. An unpleasant individual physically attack someone doing lethal damage? Lethal damage should be returned.

If I were the DM in that circumstance, I'd have the NPC wipe the PC out. Consequences of actions, and all that.

That still leaves moral issues, though. If the NPC is much more powerful as DonTadow says, killing a weaker character just because she's being stupid is still morally wrong, even if he's only returning lethal force, not instigating it.

 

[DonTadow]

That still leaves moral issues, though. If the NPC is much more powerful as DonTadow says, killing a weaker character just because she's being stupid is still morally wrong, even if he's only returning lethal force, not instigating it.

I told her to bring a backup character if she wishes to pursue that course of action. I told her that I was not going to forbid anything, but she knows the capabilities of the character. If she fights him using lethal damage, I will have him deal lethal damage in return but not kill her, maybe when she is at a quarter hp use a sleep spell (her will save is 5). However, if they do fight the 30 deugar' on the outside of the fortress would sneak in using their invisible ability using the yelling and fighting match as a deversion.

She's since sent me an email and told me that she is still considering her characters honor.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Sounds like this player doesn't understand that a low Charisma can mean reserved as well as rude. Whether he likes her or not, outright lethal conflict is out of the question if he doesn't have a serious evil streak. There are plenty of people I hate, but no matter what they said or did, I wouldn't kill them if I knew I could overpower them.

I'd suggest you have the NPC find a way to resolve the combat nonlethally and then proceed to humiliate the PC in an (extremely) minor way.

I agree about the charisma, IMHO a consistently and persistantly rude person may well have a positive charisma modifier - I consider cha to be strength of personality and a strong personality is not always a plesant one.

I'm unconvinced that lethal force would make the noc tend towards evil. I mean, this is D&D we're talking about here. Good PCs deal out lethal force even to much weaker foes on a daily basis. The npc may choose to be merciful, if he likes the other PCs and thinks killing her would put them out, or if he has any reason to believe that she can be taught a lesson and start being helpful to the group, but he's under no obligation to when she attacks him.

I would have him take full defense for the round after she attacks and tell her in no uncertain terms that she has one chance, out of respect to the party, to appologize for the attack and start behaving herself. Make it clear to the player OOC that if the PC doesn't take this chance and continues an attack, there will be a lethal combat ending as it may.

Obstructionist players make me crazy. Especially those who claim to be roleplaying their character when they are really pushing the metagame to force other players (and the DM) not to roleplay realistic responses.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Obstructionist players make me crazy. Especially those who claim to be roleplaying their character when they are really pushing the metagame to force other players (and the DM) not to roleplay realistic responses.

As a side note, the D&D for dummies book talks about roleplaying your character to the point of hurting the campaign and recommends against it using some common meta-sense. "Well, I'd never adventure wit ha dwarf due to my character's background, but this dwarf has helped us and all so..." Things like that.

 

[Chimera]

As a side note, the D&D for dummies book talks about roleplaying your character to the point of hurting the campaign and recommends against it using some common meta-sense. "Well, I'd never adventure wit ha dwarf due to my character's background, but this dwarf has helped us and all so..." Things like that.

Then the question is; Who gets to change?

Should I change my style of play and put up with obstructionist and destructive behavior on the part of another player, or should they change so that their character and their behavior is more acceptable?

To some degree, I'm facing this question in one of my games. The GM's SO seems to think it all great fun to act in a suicidal and unproductive manner, sabotaging our plans and so forth, all in the name of "roleplaying her character". Unfortunately for me, other players have congratulated her on her good role-play, while I'm getting tired of the antics.

Threatening to ruin a good ambush because your character is jumpy (really because it's my plan and you know it will piss me off) isn't good role-play. It's just being a jerk.

Similarly in the OP, being so obnoxious that NPCs and other PCs alike hate you is not "good roleplay", it's being a jerk.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Then the question is; Who gets to change?

Should I change my style of play and put up with obstructionist and destructive behavior on the part of another player, or should they change so that their character and their behavior is more acceptable?

To some degree, I'm facing this question in one of my games. The GM's SO seems to think it all great fun to act in a suicidal and unproductive manner, sabotaging our plans and so forth, all in the name of "roleplaying her character". Unfortunately for me, other players have congratulated her on her good role-play, while I'm getting tired of the antics.

Threatening to ruin a good ambush because your character is jumpy (really because it's my plan and you know it will piss me off) isn't good role-play. It's just being a jerk.

Similarly in the OP, being so obnoxious that NPCs and other PCs alike hate you is not "good roleplay", it's being a jerk.

Some groups are completely okay with inter party combat and violence and killing each other left and right.

Not me. I'm with the D&D book that states that you don't let the role playing get in the way of the group's fun. This isn't acting school or high drama. It's both a roll playing and a role palying game.