D&D 5E Helping a player with a time manipulation class

[Andrew Hanson]

My player wants to make a new class. This is what he has handed to me, and I have organized it as beat as I can. Constructive help would be nice in making sure this is balanced and fair for him. This is his beast, I will pass on all suggestions.

Time manipulating class.
Proficiences same as wizard.
1d10 hit die
Prof bonus follow wizard
The abilities are anchored in an artifact that show evidence of time manipulation. This is created by the time caster to show they are able to control time. To lose you artifact will make you suffer 3% of max hp for every hour past 24 hours of being separated from it. See attached picture for some abilities.

Time drain: Unwilling creature takes a con save. On failure they lose an action on their next turn. Costs 3% of casters current HP. Costs 1% if failed.
Time surge: grant a store time drain to a party member. Costs 3% of casters HP.
Time acceleration: gives a friendly the ability to move position in the initiative order to be closer to the first. Costs 5% of casters HP.
rewind: creature makes a con save against losing an action. Costs 3% of casters HP on success and 1% on fail
fast forward: grants a player an extra move action. Costs 3% of casters HP.
Slow Time: as slow falls costs 1% hp per round
Hold time: at level 15 you gain access to the spell Time stop and can cast it 1 time per day for 10% HP cost or 5% HP for fail.
If a player is granted a time surge they can choose to instead use 1 hit die on themselves. At caster level 12 and 18 this increases by 1.
Time for hobbies: as you find ways to make time for other things you find your self tinkering with everything so you get ½ prof on all skills checks
Can store a number of rewinds and time drains to your person = to int modifier
DC = 8+prof+Int Mod
Gift of time: you can reroll skill checks or saving throws = to INT mod times per day.
Time inspiration: Caster can give players time inspiration equal to INT modifier times per day. player can reroll skill checks, but must use second roll.

 

[Leatherhead]

This seems half baked.

I can't tell the level at which most of these powers and abilities are gained.

I can also say that using a percentage of your HP as a spellcasting resource is a bad move to start with.

 

[Harzel]

My player wants to make a new class. This is what he has handed to me, and I have organized it as beat as I can. Constructive help would be nice in making sure this is balanced and fair for him. This is his beast, I will pass on all suggestions.

Time manipulating class.
Proficiences same as wizard.
1d10 hit die
Prof bonus follow wizard
The abilities are anchored in an artifact that show evidence of time manipulation. This is created by the time caster to show they are able to control time. To lose you artifact will make you suffer 3% of max hp for every hour past 24 hours of being separated from it. See attached picture for some abilities.

Time drain: Unwilling creature takes a con save. On failure they lose an action on their next turn. Costs 3% of casters current HP. Costs 1% if failed.
Time surge: grant a store time drain to a party member. Costs 3% of casters HP.
Time acceleration: gives a friendly the ability to move position in the initiative order to be closer to the first. Costs 5% of casters HP.
rewind: creature makes a con save against losing an action. Costs 3% of casters HP on success and 1% on fail
fast forward: grants a player an extra move action. Costs 3% of casters HP.
Slow Time: as slow falls costs 1% hp per round
Hold time: at level 15 you gain access to the spell Time stop and can cast it 1 time per day for 10% HP cost or 5% HP for fail.
If a player is granted a time surge they can choose to instead use 1 hit die on themselves. At caster level 12 and 18 this increases by 1.
Time for hobbies: as you find ways to make time for other things you find your self tinkering with everything so you get ½ prof on all skills checks
Can store a number of rewinds and time drains to your person = to int modifier
DC = 8+prof+Int Mod
Gift of time: you can reroll skill checks or saving throws = to INT mod times per day.
Time inspiration: Caster can give players time inspiration equal to INT modifier times per day. player can reroll skill checks, but must use second roll.

This is hard to evaluate very well because it is not cast in the same mold as other class descriptions, especially which features are gained at which levels. Nevertheless, looking at it as a rough concept -

The most novel feature is the use of HP drain for the use of abilities. The problem with this with respect to other caster classes is that other casters have two resource pools to draw on - HP and spell slots, whereas this class has only HP. If a PC of the class uses his abilities a lot, he may have survivability problems; if he doesn't then it looks like he will spend most of his time throwing darts like a 1e wizard. I don't think the increase from d6 to d10 hit dice will be enough to power frequent casting unless there is a healer that wants to spend all his time healing this PC. If frequent casting is not intended, then the class needs features to let it do something else interesting. (Unless the player intends that the class gets time manipulation abilities in addition to wizard spells - that would be a different discussion.)

Details:

• I don't understand the difference between Time Drain and Rewind; they look like the same thing.
• I don't understand the description of Slow Time; I just can't parse the sentence.
• The description of Hold Time mentions Time Stop "failing"; AFAIK, Time Stop cannot fail.

 

[Andrew Hanson]

This seems half baked.

I can't tell the level at which most of these powers and abilities are gained.

I can also say that using a percentage of your HP as a spellcasting resource is a bad move to start with.

I agree that this doesn't put down which level what is gained, and I agree that the hp was a bit wierd when I read it. I was thinking a system of points that you can use to tap into this instead of hp, kinda like ki points. Someone mentioned to me checking our chronomancers, I think I will send him that way

 

[Eltab]

What game system is this for? It doesn't sound like any D&D iteration.

For the time being (pun intended) have your friend create a wizard.
Review all the spells available (not just Wizard list) and highlight the ones that can have something to do with Time (beyond just a word in the title).
Also be alert for spells that grant a re-roll if you don't like the result of -something-.

You might want to look at 3e and/or Pathfinder rules for mechanics to make its special powers work. Maybe this concept should be built on a Psion chassis?

 

[steeldragons]

My guess here is that they are going for something akin to making a Dr. Who type character? Time manipulation that is somehow based-connected with some special devise they must have (almost sounds Artificer-y).

While I, personally, think that messing with "time" in a D&D game is a big headache and attempting such a character would just be a no-no in a typical D&D game, that is not what you're looking for help with, here.

So, my immediate question is, why -if you're looking for something being based in/off of points, "like ki points"- how did a Sorcery subclass and using Sorcery Points escape the development process?

I agree with everyone saying basing the class off of "HP %" seems ill-advised. First of all calculating "3% for this, 1% for that, 5% for this" of anything for anything in any concept ever needs to be annihilated. That's just a poor design idea/decision. Second of all, there are already 2 (? shrug. yeah, sure, 2) classes -Monk and Sorcerer- using a point-based resource mechanic. There are another 2 classes -Bard and the Battlemaster Fighter- that use a "gain/accumulate & spend as desired" dice-based mechanic, with other examples of variations (Portent for the Diviner Wizard) strewn throughout the classes.

I'm really unsure where this concept of basing class features off of spending HP came from. Scrap it. Your concept can still be dependent on Intelligence or Constitution or whatever. The class fluff doesn't really need changing (insofar as we understand what it's suppsoed to be or have any beyond guessing at Dr. Who).

Also, of course, pretty near every damned class in 5e uses spells...whether known or prepared, found & studied or prescribed/automatically accessed, full-/half-/or one third- caster progression. Every class except Fighter, Rogue, and Barbarian...and they have magic-using subclasses. So, how did a spell casting mechanic and progression not come into play here?

Because I'm a homebrew junkie, particularly when it comes to class construction and have done...I've lost count now, really...let's say "a LOT" for 5e the past few years, I'mma take a swing. It will probably not be what your friend is/was originally imagining (since the idea/concept of the class -regardless of mechanics- is really not detailed), and as I warn above, time manipulations within a D&D game are a bad idea and almost certainly overpowered, if not Mary-Sue-ing. But seems like a concept that ought to be able to be done/neared. Maybe there'll be something useful in it. Maybe not. Maybe your friend will love and want to use it word for word. Who knows?...well, "the Traveler" class (working title) already knows, of course...and will know again. We mere mortals will have to wait and see.

 

[OB1]

@Andrew Hanson Taking some of the abilities that your player is looking for, I thought it might work to turn it into an arcane tradition similar to the School of Transmutation. So the class would be Wizard with the following abilities. This may be a bit OP and need to be toned down a bit before presenting. These abilities could probably be moved into Warlock or Monk classes if that is a better fit.

School of Chronomancy

Wizards who take this tradition specialize in using arcane magic to bend time to their will.

Reactionless
Starting at 2nd level when you select this school, you subtly manipulate time in your favor during combat. As a bonus action, you can expend a 1st level spell slot to prevent another creature you can see within 30 feet of you from being able to take reactions until the end of your next turn.

You may expend a higher level slot, for each level above 1st, you can effect one additional creature.

You can also choose to try and prevent the creature from using it's next action instead. If you do so, it makes a wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, it cannot use an action or a reaction until the end of your next turn, though it can still move on it's turn. A creature that makes a successful saving throw can no longer be affected by this ability for 24 hours.

Chronomaster's Watch
Starting at 6th level, you can spend 8 hours creating a Chronomaster's Watch that stores Chrono Magic. You can gain benefit from the watch yourself or give it to another creature. A creature gains a benefit of your watch as long as it is in the creature's possession. When you create the watch, choose the benefit from the following options.

- You are unable to be surprised and gain a +5 to your initiative
- Your speed doubles
- You gain a +3 to your Dexterity Score
- You gain the Evasion ability

The benefit of the watch can be changed during a short rest, but you must have access to the watch to make the change.

Hasty
At 10th level, you add the haste spell to your spell book, if it is not there already. You can cast haste without expending a spell slot. When you do so you can target only yourself, but it does not require concentration. Once you cast haste this way, you can't do so until you finish a short or long rest, though you can still cast it normally using an available spell slot.

Time Master
Starting at 14th level, you can use your action to consume the reserve of chrono magic stored with your watch in a single burst. When you do so, choose one of the following effects. your Chrono Watch is destroyed and can't be remade until you finish a long rest.

- 1d6 +4 creatures of your choosing you can see within 60 feet of you lose the ability to take reactions for 1 minute
- 1d4 +2 creatures of your choosing you can see within 30 feet of you gain the benefits of the haste spell (no concentration required) for 1 minute
- 1 creature of your choosing is unable to use legendary actions for 1d4 rounds
- You cast the Time Stop spell, but doing so prevents the watch from being remade for 101 nights or until you gain another level in this class

 

[steeldragons]

The Chronocler, a.k.a. The Traveler, a.k.a. The Timecaster.

#1. The Sorcerer Subclass.
HP/HD, Armor, Weapons, Tools, Skills, all as Sorcerer. Saves, see below.
All base class features are as for the Sorcerer, except where detailed below: Spellcasting, sorcery points, font of magic, flexible casting, ASIs (of course), and Sorcery Restoration.

Sorcerous Origin - Infinity.
Your connection -via ancestry or happenstance- to the endlessness of time-space has given you an inherent ability to perceive, comprehend, and manipulate the disparate infinity of time and time-lines. You receive features at 1st, 6th, 14th, and 18th (as a Sorcerer does).
1st: Expanded Intellect. You add your proficiency bonus to any Intelligence-based save or skill rolls even if they are not skills or saves with which you are proficient. Additionally, you may replace one of your proficient Save rolls (Constitution and Charisma) with your Intelligence modifier if your Intelligence modifier is higher.

Deja Vu: You spend 1 sorcery point to roll 2 d20s with which you may replace any other d20 rolls. Other than the expense of 1 sorcery point, this feature functions the same as the wizard's Diviner subclass' Portent feature.

@3rd: Metamagic: the Infinity Sorcerer automatically gains/must take the Quickened Spell and Extended Spell metamagics at 3rd level. The player may choose their own additional metamagics at 10th and 17th levels, as normal.

6th: Origin Feature: Chronologic Fluctuation.
When you use your action to cast a spell or cantrip, you may spend 2 sorcery points to do one of the following: gain a bonus action for yourself or an ally within 15' of you; deprive someone within 15' of you from receiving their next bonus action; or increase or decrease the movement speed of someone within 30' of you by half.

14th: Origin Feature: Slipstream.
You gain the ability to slip into and out of the "time stream" within a limited area, as you will. As a bonus action on your turn, you can duplicate the effects of the Misty Step spell, appearing to "teleport" up to your full movement rate from your previous location in the blink of an eye.

18th: Origin Feature: Time Warp.
You spend 5 spell points to effectively duplicate the effects of the Time Stop spell or may Haste/Slow everything up to an area equal to your level x10' radius of you, exempting as many individuals as your proficiency modifier.

Other ways to go that I don't have time for right now, but will work on them later: the "College of Days" Bard subclass and/or the "Time Lords Patron" Warlock subclass.

 

[Mephista]

So, lets do this.

My player wants to make a new class. This is what he has handed to me, and I have organized it as beat as I can. Constructive help would be nice in making sure this is balanced and fair for him. This is his beast, I will pass on all suggestions.

Time manipulating class.
Proficiences same as wizard.
1d10 hit die
Prof bonus follow wizard

Proficiency bonus same as wizard, I presume? All classes use the same proficency bonus that scales with level anyways.

I do agree that percentages of HP are clunky (and, to be blunt, way too small of a figure). Furthermore... HP is replenish-able through healing potions, spells, and more. Heck. This character can stay full steam if they can keep away from combat, and get healed 1hp every time they fall. This is going to be a tricky thing to balance, and that's all on you as the GM. You're going to have to put a lot of pressure on to drain this character's HP

Time drain: Unwilling creature takes a con save. On failure they lose an action on their next turn. Costs 3% of casters current HP. Costs 1% if failed.
Time surge: grant a store time drain to a party member. Costs 3% of casters HP.

Time drain and Time Store are paired, it seems; you "steal" someone's turn and give it to someone else. This is actually a pretty powerful combination. Stealing someone's time is the same as a hold person spell. So, we're going to be talking level 3 at the very earliest. Worse, its used several times a day, as opposed to a level 3 wizard casting Hold Person... what, twice a day is it? That's way overpowered. And that's assuming you leave it as Hold Person; the way its written, it seems to imply that we're dealing with Hold Monster, which shouldn't even be considered as an ability until many levels later.

Granting an extra turn to another usually uses that target's Reaction, to keep everything balanced.

This ability is going to be cast several times a day, so I recommend, instead of doing a percentage, we use a flat number. That way, we're scaling with numbers similarly to how a spellcaster can do things.

Time acceleration:

Giving up a turn to move someone else to first initiative... overall, it sounds strong, but realistically, its actually a pretty weak ability. You're giving up an attack to let someone go a bit earlier.

rewind: creature makes a con save against losing an action. Costs 3% of casters HP on success and 1% on fail

Same as time drain

fast forward: grants a player an extra move action. Costs 3% of casters HP.

There are no move "actions" in 5e. You can technically move, attack, move more, prepare an item, move again, take a bonus action, stand and talk for a tick, move more. You can increase someone's speed, which is consistent with first level spells like Longstrider.

Slow Time: as slow falls costs 1% hp per round

Yeah, no. Slow is a level 3 spell. 1% hp is less than 1 hp per turn, and target enemy is likely going to die the first round or two. (10hp on level 1, 5 for each subsequent level, plus con. Assume Con of 14, and that's 12+7 per level, which is 12 levels to break the 100hp mark)

Hold time: at level 15 you gain access to the spell Time stop and can cast it 1 time per day for 10% HP cost or 5% HP for fail.
If a player is granted a time surge they can choose to instead use 1 hit die on themselves. At caster level 12 and 18 this increases by 1.

Isn't Time Stop a level 9 spell? You need to be a level 20 character PLUS have an Epic Boon before you can cast a level 9 spell twice a day. And this player wants it several times a day? From a renewable resource?

Time for hobbies: as you find ways to make time for other things you find your self tinkering with everything so you get ½ prof on all skills checks

Okay, so stealing the bard's jack of all trades abilitiy. Not a problem on the face of it.

Can store a number of rewinds and time drains to your person = to int modifier

Hm... not a fan of this either. And here's why - in theory, one could use Time Drains on party members outside combat, then give everyone a turn. Having a store becomes effectively meaningless.

Gift of time: you can reroll skill checks or saving throws = to INT mod times per day.

Hmm... that's better than a Diviner's twice a day, and as good as the Lucky feat. Good as both combined if you boost INT up to 20.

Time inspiration: Caster can give players time inspiration equal to INT modifier times per day. player can reroll skill checks, but must use second roll.

I don't like turning Inspiration into a mechanic the player can generate. Inspiration is given out as a reward for good roleplaying. Granting advantage is fine, but Inspiration is... more than that. Its also a very awkward ability that's not really associated with time manipulation.


All in all, I would not recommend this. As another suggested, making a subclass related to time manipulation would be better. If its from an artifact, than as a Warlock Patron would likely be ideal. You can even use the one Invocation that makes targets of Eldritch Blast move slower as part of the abilities of Chrono Trigger here.

 

[kagayaku]

I'm not sure I have anything to add to this right now but I love the concept - I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes and will be an eye on the thread. Good luck!

Ok, one thing. It would depend on the player, your group, etc. but I think it'd be cooler to have the time abilities use a percentage of the character's life expectancy, rather than HP, each time they're used. You'd still need the "spell points" or whatever as a mechanical way of stopping spell spamming, but from an RP point of view it seems appropriate to me. Even if only the bigger spells had an ageing penalty it'd be a pretty great RP reason to deliberate over the use of a spell. xD