Helping with a Grapple

[Wellby]

Situation: Owlbear has clawed and successfully begun a grapple against a strong, 2nd level Barbarian, Courana. For his two remaining attacks, I had him claw and biteher, she with no Dex bonus, he with a -4 to hit (while grappling)? Correct so far?

Courana's friend, Elrond, str 14, dashes up and wants to help free Courana. Now, a straight reading of the grapple rules tells me he could attempt an opposed grapple check, where, if successful, he would free Courana. But, with +4 grapple vs an Owlbear (Large, +14 grapple), this seems ill-advised.

What is the mechanic for Elrond working WITH Courana? Does he step up, announce a 'ready' action, and state that upon Courana's turn, he will combine his strength with her, to up their chance of winning an opposed grapple check? And if so, what is their grapple roll? Her grapple roll of +6, and simply his +2 for 14 str added?

Thanks, and please, the Owlbear is about to run off with Courana! Be quick!

 

[rvalle]

I'll let someone else do the rest... but I think your attack is wrong.

She doesn't lose her dex vs a grappled opponent. Just creatures outside the grapple.

rv

 

[Legildur]

Once the owlbear has used its Improved grab ability to commence the grapple, it is then restricted in the actions it can take. That is, it cannot readily use it's remaining natural attacks unless it uses it in place of an iterative attack available through grappling.

Given an owlbear has a BAB of only +5, it doesn't get any iterative attacks. If it had, say, +6 (advanced owlbear), then it could use the 'attack your opponent' grapple option (with a -9 penalty [-4 from using a weapon or natural atatck in a grapple and -5 from the iterative attack]). A better option for the owlbear would be to simply grapple for damage. But, it doesn't get the second attack

As for moving with the grapple 'You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.'

 

[Hypersmurf]

What is the mechanic for Elrond working WITH Courana? Does he step up, announce a 'ready' action, and state that upon Courana's turn, he will combine his strength with her, to up their chance of winning an opposed grapple check? And if so, what is their grapple roll? Her grapple roll of +6, and simply his +2 for 14 str added?

The most consistent way to adjudicate two working together would be to take a leaf from 'Aid Another'. Elrond makes an unopposed grapple check against DC 10; if successful, Courana gains a +2 bonus on her check (regardless of Elrond's Strength bonus).

-Hyp.

 

[Wellby]

Legildur: Are you saying then that, an Owlbear with three normal full attacks is limited to just one during grappling? IOW, on its next turn, it can merely make one claw attack against Courana, at -4?

Hyp: I see what you're saying, but it does seem strange that STR is discounted in such a move!

 

[Legildur]

Legildur: Are you saying then that, an Owlbear with three normal full attacks is limited to just one during grappling? IOW, on its next turn, it can merely make one claw attack against Courana, at -4?

To the best of my knowledge, yes. However, If I were an owlbear, I'd be using the 'damage your opponent' option and making a straight up grapple check as "If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold." In this case, the claw attack.

In terms of moving the grapple, the extra text in Improved Grab isn't quite in sync with the grapple rules (which really means I'm not quite sure what happens and maybe Hyp can explain it).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

 

[Stalker0]

Legildur: Are you saying then that, an Owlbear with three normal full attacks is limited to just one during grappling? IOW, on its next turn, it can merely make one claw attack against Courana, at -4?

Since natural attacks are considered light weapons, they are allowed in a grapple at a -4. For your option for latter rounds while grappling is the one grapple attack for damage, or your three natural attacks...each at a -4.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Since natural attacks are considered light weapons, they are allowed in a grapple at a -4. For your option for latter rounds while grappling is the one grapple attack for damage, or your three natural attacks...each at a -4.

You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

So he's limited to only one of his natural weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[Gansk]

From a strict interpretation of the rules, the owlbear's turn is over once he succeeds with the grab. He should not get the extra two attacks. He could have chosen to attack twice for damage, then attempt the improved grab with his last claw attack to maximize his potential. Whether an owlbear has the intelligence to do that is another can of worms.

On the owlbear's next turn, he has to decide whether to take a -20 penalty on his grapple checks for that round. If he does, he has the right to attack Elrond with his bite and free claw. Courana can be attacked only once, either with a bite or claw at -4 vs. AC (with Dex bonus), or squeezed by the holding with an opposed grapple. If the owlbear's BAB was +6 instead of +5, he could squeeze twice (the second time at -5). If the owlbear had the rake special ability, he could attack Courana three times vs. AC (the rake attacks would not be at -4). Since neither case is true, Courana can only be attacked once.

Note that the improved grab special ability allows the owlbear to move with Courana without having to make a grapple check.

 

[Festivus]

I would normally play out an owlbear as claw, claw+improved grab, start grapple (likely winning)... then bite at -4 the next and subsequent rounds. It is better damage than the claw, and seems more like what an owlbear should do when grabbing potential food.

As for helping another player escape a grapple, I would think that the character coming to help would be able to initiate the grapple without taking an AOO from the owlbear, and automatically make the grab. Then the owlbear would have to beat the opposed grapple roll for the aiding player. On the owlbears turn, to maintain the grapple it would have to beat the highest roll between the two grappling characters. Anyhow, that is how I would have seat of the pants it, I am not an expert on it