Herding PCs towards a certain (swashbuckling) feel. Is it time to put my foot down?

[Psion]

Okay, some of you may have heard me speak of my Sailors on the River of Worlds campaign. I nominally wanted to start it as a swashbuckling interloping fantasy pirates game (for reference, think Pirates of Dark Water).

The proposed new characters have come across the table.

Half-orc cleric/barbarian following a god of strength. Okay, maybe I can mould him into a follower of some corsair god and make him fit.

Next one... half-ogre fighter/sorcerer.

Okay, I normally am a big supporter of the notion of letting the players play the characters that they want to play, but these two characters sound like they belong more in a mercenaries campaign than a swashbuckling campaign. One I can work with. But two... hmmm.

So, the questions I would pose to the audience:
1) How do you feel about kibitzing with chargen to acheive a certain feel?
2) What sorts of guidelines would you think would be good for making a swashbuckling feel without going too far?

 

[Morrow]

Campaign Components: Swashbucklers from Dragon #301 is a great reference to give players for a swashbuckling game. Its full of information about the swashbuckling feel and has a large section of character concepts that are sure to inspire your players' imaginations.

Morrow

 

[billd91]

Even with a swashbuckling campaign, there may be cause to have some heavies among the PCs. Encourage the sorcerer to take spells useful for sea-voyages and you're on your way.
You also might want to consult Al-Qadim, if you have it, for more swashbuckling feel, including gods who might be adaptable to a better swashbuckling campaign than the GH gods listed in the PHB.

 

[Psion]

Even with a swashbuckling campaign, there may be cause to have some heavies among the PCs.

Which is why a single half-orc barbarian didn't bother me. I could work with that.

Half the party as heavies was feeling like it was lacking the subtelty that I was looking for in the game.

You also might want to consult Al-Qadim, if you have it, for more swashbuckling feel, including gods who might be adaptable to a better swashbuckling campaign than the GH gods listed in the PHB.

Um, no real problem there, as I do not allow Greyhawk gods (other than demihuman deities.) In fact, there mere presence in the PHB aggravates me. But that's another matter.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Are the players completely on-board with the whole swashbuckling thing? You might want to suggest that each player look at their PC and answer the question: How is this guy a swashbuckler? In what way does he fit the genre?

That might help focus them a bit in their PC generation task.

 

[Henry]

Are you sure your players WANT to play in a swashbuckling campaign?

I know you've undoubtedly discussed with them what the genre and feel is, but it seems like they're going in opposite directions on purpose. You might want to see what their ideas are for making these two square pegs fit in the round hole. If they can't come up with a plausible background and theme, then disallow them.

The half-ogre in particular sounds like an unsure fit. My suggestion would be to make him part Merrow, the result of either a tragic union, or a mad wizard's attempt to magically breed an aquatic shock troop for evil scheme #723. He was raised differently, so he gained a modicum of morals, but the magical manipulation also awakened inborn magical talent within him.

All of a sudden, I just got a nasty vision of HUNDREDS of half-merrow warrior/sorcerers, serving a mad wizard that turns out to be a minor bad guy in the campaign...

 

[Paragon Kobold]

A half-ogre in a swashbuckling campaign?

My experience is that players need strict guidelines if you want them to conform to your idea for a particular style. If one just tell them to make something fit for 'swashbuckling' or 'epic fantasy', or 'urban intrigue' or whatever they just go make a character they think is cool, even if it is a gnome barbarian, and then claim that it fits the concept.

In order to twist DnD into a 'swashbuckling' type adventure one must sacrifice some of the freedom of choice that players enjoy so as to restrict them to the right kinds of characters.

Things I would do:
Remove some classes: Druids, Paladins, and Clerics are not natural Swashbucklers. Get rid of them.
Maybe keep the Cleric as the party still need a healer, but alter the class so that they lose the armor proficiency. Real Swashbucklers don't use plate. Give them extra skill points or something instead. Even better; replace the whole thing with the Healer class from Miniatures Handbook.

Replace the Fighter with the Swashbuckler class from Complete Warrior.

Get rid of some races: Dwarves are not Swashbucklers, they are not even sea-worthy. Add the Genasi instead.
And Thieflings.

Here is an extreme idea: The most Swashbuckling classes are (to my mind) rogues, bards, and (obviously) Swashbucklers. Require that all characters must have at least one level in one of these classes. This way instead of a party mage and a party healer you will have a Swashbuckler-Healer and a Wizard-Rouge.

Give them something in return. Make available some feats that you think fits the concept. Hand out magic items like Rapiers +1 and rings of feather falling.

 

[Psion]

Are the players completely on-board with the whole swashbuckling thing? You might want to suggest that each player look at their PC and answer the question: How is this guy a swashbuckler? In what way does he fit the genre?

I was thinking something along those lines. I don't necessarily want to make all characters fit the same singular descriptions, but I was thinking of putting out a list of common attributes or themes that would be preferable to pursue in chargen. Like:

Swashbuckling
Seafaring
City-based
Tricky

etc.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Have you talked about this to the players yet?

I'm assuming they new they were making these characters for a swashbuckling campaign. The character with the half ogre, did he take appropraite feats for his fighter levels? Are half ogres prominent in the world you're creating?

If half ogres don't exist, then simply let the player know this. Advise him a suitably swashbuckerly half orc (brother of the first one perhaps?) may be a better choice.

I'd definitely talk with the players about the expectations you hjave concerning the campign. I made a list of the races, classes, and even prestige classes that were allowed in the world. It gave them the choices they wanted and let them decide where to take their characters. But didn't end up with me saying no to inappropriate races, classes, etc. and look like a mean DM nerfing their character concept. Saved me a lot of headaches in the long run for a few hours work to make the lists.

Also, do they know that wearing armor is a bad thing to be doing on a ship? Remind them about all those wonderful swim check penalties that the tanks get for wearing their full plate. A high dex, nimble character with combat expertise is actually a more survivable concept, especially at higher levels. Make sure they've thought through the ramifications of their concepts. Heck when you talk to them you might find they have a wonderful swashbuckling concept to fit that half ogre.

-Ashrum

Edit: Well, most of my points are said by others above so feel free to ignore me. (teach me to write a response while I'm at work. )

 

[diaglo]

TPK and reincarnate are your friends.

the new PCs awaken on a ship....