D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Nope.

But pyrokinesis I think is too much for the based Psion.
It could be a subclass.

The Base Psion should be limited to only a couple groups of powers all psion should be expected to have (telekinesis, telepathy, organ control, astral projection). Stuff like pyrokinesis and mental transportation would have to be extra.

If working with fire is too much for a pre-subclass Psion, then take away all the fire-based cantrips and 1st level spells from all other classes too. Of course, like a couple of other classes, Psions could just get their subclass at 1st level also and that would take care of that.

 

[dave2008]

They are equivalent, though. If existing psionic classes are enough and a pure Psion isn't needed, then existing arcane partial caster and existing partial divine classes are also enough. We don't need Clerics, Druids and Wizards.

YOUR argument applies to each equally. If you find that problematic with Wizards, Druids and/or Clerics, then it is also problematic with Psions.

I don't think that argument holds water. I could see a "partial caster" class for psions living quite comfortably next to a "full caster" class of a Wizard. Heck in older editions clerics were partial casters (7th level spells max). And we have partial casters and alternate casters (paladin & ranger & warlock) now and the are enough without being pure casters.

In fact, if they do make a psion class I would prefer it not be a full caster class.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think that argument holds water. I could see a "partial caster" class for psions living quite comfortably next to a "full caster" class of a Wizard. Heck in older editions clerics were partial casters (7th level spells max). And we have partial casters and alternate casters (paladin & ranger & warlock) now and the are enough without being pure casters.

The point is that someone who doesn't care about Psion's being present is saying it's okay to not have a pure casting Psion. It doesn't matter if you, I or Spock are okay with partial psionic subclasses only, other people won't be okay with it. Yet other people will be equally okay with just having Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, and Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers can go missing. The same argument applies.

 

[dave2008]

The point is that someone who doesn't care about Psion's being present is saying it's okay to not have a pure casting Psion. It doesn't matter if you, I or Spock are okay with partial psionic subclasses only, other people won't be okay with it. Yet other people will be equally okay with just having Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, and Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers can go missing. The same argument applies.

My point would be that it is not so black & white. I could want a full Psion class without it being built around being a full caster. Which is what you seemed to imply couldn't be in your previous post. I think it was just poor word choice / misunderstanding. It seems you meant full class vs. subclass only.

 

[Maxperson]

My point would be that it is not so black & white. I could want a full Psion class without it being built around being a full caster.

If it's not a full caster, it's not a Psion. Psions are pure casters.

Which is what you seemed to imply couldn't be in your previous post. I think it was just poor word choice / misunderstanding. It seems you meant full class vs. subclass only.

No. I just misunderstood what you were saying. Now I do and disagree. You can't make a non-pure Psion, because if you tried, it would be some other class. It would be like making a pure casting, heavy armor wearing divine class and trying to call it a Ranger.

 

[Fenris-77]

No. I just misunderstood what you were saying. Now I do and disagree. You can't make a non-pure Psion, because if you tried, it would be some other class. It would be like making a pure casting, heavy armor wearing divine class and trying to call it a Ranger.

Sure you can, it's just not the psion you want or like.

 

[Minigiant]

If working with fire is too much for a pre-subclass Psion, then take away all the fire-based cantrips and 1st level spells from all other classes too. Of course, like a couple of other classes, Psions could just get their subclass at 1st level also and that would take care of that.

Creating fire with arcane magic is fine.
I just like that it shouldn't be on the base list,much like a cleric.
Mind sliver, message, mending, mage hand, minor illusion, friends as cantrips are fine. Plus

The key thing is make the psion look like an idea on its own and modify itfrom there and not make it aversion of another existing class. I don't thing every psion should have pyrokinesis or teleportation. Some could but it isn't an expected feature nor common enough that a psion wold have to be purposely avioding it to no have it.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure you can, it's just not the psion you want or like.

So you think a non-spell using, armor wearing, fighting wizard is okay?

 

[Fenris-77]

So you think a non-spell using, armor wearing, fighting wizard is okay?

That's not the same thing at all. A non-spell caster isn't a wizard. Someone who uses psionics is a psion. I wasn't trying to be a jerk here. You could write up a psion class that had medium armor and whatnot and focused primarily on metabolic and telekinetic combat whatnot and had some mentalism on the side. That's a psion sho' nuff, just not even close to the one you want. That's what I was getting at. I'm not saying that's what I want mind you, just that it manages to be a psion and yet fulfill hardly anything off the checklist you are working from.

 

[Maxperson]

That's not the same thing at all. A non-spell caster isn't a wizard. Someone who uses psionics is a psion. I wasn't trying to be a jerk here. You could write up a psion class that had medium armor and whatnot and focused primarily on metabolic and telekinetic combat whatnot and had some mentalism on the side. That's a psion sho' nuff, just not even close to the one you want. That's what I was getting at. I'm not saying that's what I want mind you, just that it manages to be a psion and yet fulfill hardly anything off the checklist you are working from.

It's exactly the same. A class is the class. Other than in 1e were Psionics were a tack on, they have been a pure casting class. What a Psion is has been well established, and it's a pure casting class.

What you describe is NOT a Psion "sho nuff." Rather, it's a class with psionics, "sho nuff." That's it.