Heroes# 12: Our Father/Dec 2008

[fba827]

Then this episode Hiro is given the catalyst instead of Claire and Arthur is back in the past collecting the catalyst from Hiro.

Well, to be fair, we can't specifically say that Arthur went back to that time to get it from Hiro.

He appeared at that time (and, if you think about it what was discussed earlier between HRG/Claire and Kaito/Wife), that was supposed to be the time and place where baby Claire was supposed to get the catalyst.

Hiro was standing there, explaining to Claire that he took the catalyst while Arthur was standing behind him, thus, he heard it all and knew from that info that Hiro had it in him. So, Arthur could very well have gone back in time to get it from Kaito/HRG/baby Claire, but upon hearing Hiro explain that he had it took it from Hiro instead.

I'm not saying it was necessarily written that way, but I will give it credit for working out that way (on purpose or not).

 

[Wolv0rine]

I just really, REALLY feel bad for Hiro. All the crap his father was talking about him being incompetant, then his mother heals his mind and he makes this grand heartfelt speach about how he CAN protect the catalyst... and it takes him about 15 minutes to lose it like a worthless punk. Talk about Epic Fail Mommy. Poor Hiro.

 

[Dire Bare]

Nope. Not backing down Umbran. There appears to be an epidemic of "piling on" here past the point of reasonableness.

I get nervous when people fire back at the mods, but I do feel the same way Steel Wind does . . . cut & edit: shouldn't have posted before Umbran asked Steely to can it . . . well, probably shouldn't have posted at all, no sense adding fuel to the fire . . .

 

[Dire Bare]

I don't think anything has yet been changed which has any real significance, with the exception of Sylar's reversion to evil.

So far, yes. But remember this Third Dark Future doesn't happen at all!! All will be saved and restored to normal next episode, the last of the season. That's how TV, and especially Heroes, works!

Does Peter get his powers back? Probably, but we actually don't know that yet. The Dark Future Peter (who is now dead in that Dark Future) perhaps never lost his powers, or did regain them. He might have even earned his scar in a different way! But that doesn't mean present day Peter is going to get his powers back. Although, of course, he probably will.

Although we won't know until next episode, I doubt Arthur will return from the dead once again. There was a finality to the scene, despite, or perhaps because of, the logical inconsistencies. There's also a web comic up this week that gives us this scene again from Arthur's point of view . . . he's so proud of Peter!

But never say never in TV land . . . or comic book land . . . especially in TV comic book land . . .

 

[Staffan]

The whole change in the catalyst would have had repercussions on the time line, but it didn't.

I wouldn't be so sure. From past time travel on the show, it seems that someone who goes back in time and changes things will return to a future that has been changed, but he himself remains the same. So if Claire was originally the host of the Catalyst, she would still be the host since she was out of time when the timeline changed. Now, the Sylar in the new timeline would not have the memories of seeing her as being different, since he was in the timeline when it changed.

 

[delericho]

Sadly, I have to be added to the list of those who hated this episode. It seemed calculated precisely to annoy me.

Twice during the first half of the episode, I wanted to shout, "Get on with it!" at the screen. Other than Nathan's conversion to the dark side, it seemed mostly to consist of characters moving around but not really accomplishing anything. Plus, we got more of the Hiro Nakamura character-assassination storyline. Excellent.

Plus, the whole Nathan thing doesn't feel right. Surely he should realise that the answer to bad people with powers isn't to give a whole bunch of other people that you ultimately can't control more powers. That's just going to leave all the same problems in society, only now made even less stable because the power level has gone up. Then there's the whole "I'm taking over"/"Okay then" thing, which was too easy and too quick, especially when Arthur should have gained Matt's mind-control power from Peter. Not to mention Nathan's whole acceptance of Tracy's betraying, rather than firing her on the spot (even if he did switch sides himself, she still went behind his back, thus demonstrating that he can't trust her). So, I didn't much like that.

We then get a whole bunch of character scenes with Claire and her parents, and Hiro and his mother. That was mostly okay - I would have preferred to skip them, but if the show is about characters then we really should see the characters interacting. Plus, if we get to a point where the Claire/HRG issues can be put to bed, that will be a good thing.

So, Hiro gets his memory back. Excellent, we can drop this stupid plotline, get the story moving again. Oh, and he takes the catalyst. Probably not smart, but then he can teleport with a blink, so he's unlikely to be captured and held for long... oh.

In this season, Hiro has managed to lose both halves of the formula to the bad guy, and now has lost the catalyst. In fact, the only time when he hasn't been screwing up really badly is when he was saddled with acting like a child. Yeah, that sucks. (Although, actually, if he was at all smart, Hiro can now save the world in two easy steps. Once he gets off the flagpole, all he needs to do is identify himself to his father, explain just how badly he screwed up, and have his father burn his half of the formula. Problem solved.)

I was fairly stunned, however, when Peter actually shot his father. Bet he's back, though.

Unfortunately, I'm done with this show. As far as I can see, the best possible ending for next week's episode has Hiro waking up in a cold sweat, and then calming down because "it was all a dream". I really hate Reset Button endings, but I think it may be necessary this time.

I'm going to give this show until January to sort itself out. However, there will then be a handful of other shows that I enjoy starting up so I'll be looking to drop some. "Fringe" was on the shopping block, but has recently improved drastically, but if "Heroes" doesn't come together very quickly, it will be gone.

 

[satori01]

Then you may leave the thread. Have a nice day.

Not very moderate.....for a moderator. Prior post by you was not in the spirit of Solomon either.

Color me disapointed.

 

[Felon]

The big bad villian randomly appears at a place in time at the exact spot he needs to be with no knowledge to the audience of how he knows to take some random magical (magic in a show that's first season stuck to science fiction) energy that he somehow knows hiro has. Then in the future he mixes a magical stew to give powers. In th mean time ma petrelli sends her best agent, the emo Peter to assassinate the man who she thinks will destroy the world. Once again the hatian's powers are nerfed or increased at the speed of plot and then sylar comes in and does the killing thing because thats what he does.

Right... this episode didn't have any problems. The scenes were HRG was good (as they always are) but stupid Hiro has been done to death. The last half of the episode just broadcasts in high def the absurd inconsistencies of the show that will lead to the show's cancelation in the near future. The show's about people with powers, those powers need to be defined and consistant for any audience to buy into the mythos. If they keep changing, disappearing, morphing and twisting it makes for a hard to understand plot and even harder to understand characterization. Every season has 2 or 3 different versions of the future, which further strangles the writing as they make inconsistencies to fix future inconsistencies.

People, like myself and many on this thread, are just frustrated with the show and can't accept a less than the first season version of it. I can't look at a crappy inconsisent episode and say ... well those three seens were good so I'll give it an average score. I need to look at the whole and say, was i fully entertained. Heck, if i just watched the first 25 minutes, i would give it a 6, but those last 35 ruined the overall show. I kept asking myself questions, trying to remember things that didn't exist to find some form of reason why things that made no sense were happening

Personally, I think the big-picture complaints should be the focus. A lot of the minor things people are going on about are on the nitpicky side, and occlude the major problems. For instance, most character's power aren't defined with any major boundaries, so why should we kvetch when they function in a way we're not familiar with? The Haitian's powers were never well-defined, so what's the big deal with finding out they have limitations? Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before, but then again it's not a particularly useful application of that power....unless you're a time traveler.

The big picture stuff IMO consists of things like the lack of a proactive protagonist. Peter's clueless, Nathan flip-flops, Matt is trying to rise to the occasion but not quite managing. Hiro has become nothing but a fanboy pastiche that's being run into the ground--amnesiafied one minute, depowered the next. Sure, time travel is a plot-busing power, as is immortality and power absorption, so find a permanent way to rein them in rather than these constant stop-gap measures. The eclipse would have been a good way to reboot many characters; their powers fade, and come back changed. In general, the show needs to feel like it has direction. Right now, they're meandering. It feels like they're trying to run out the clock.

 

[delericho]

Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before...

Last episode, they found that panel in the comic book that inspired Hiro to travel back in time. That would be a picture of the past drawn by Isaac himself.

What bugged me about Arthur doing what he did was not so much how he did it, but rather that they gave no explanation. We should be getting more scenes like at the end of "It's Coming" (or whatever the episode before the eclipse was) where we see him drawing lots of pictures.

Also, there should probably have been some hints that Arthur was doing this very thing in Isaac's comic book itself. Frankly, a prophetic comic book is rather useless if it, at best, shows events as they are happening - that sketch book should at least give some clue as to what is going to happen next.

But, yes, my problem with the show is mostly based on characters and story, and not the specific ins and outs of how the super-powered individuals so the things that they do.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Not very moderate.....for a moderator. Prior post by you was not in the spirit of Solomon either.

Color me disapointed.

Again, in case you hadn't noticed, discussion of moderation in a thread is not allowed. You have also been threadbanned.