Heroes, Inc. : Rasheman
- Thread starter DM_Matt
- Start date
Steve Gorak
Hero
kirinke said:
[sblock=for_all]FYI, Murdoch and Fin are the original founding members of the hidden shield. If you recall, they were the only ones at the beginning that had the leadership feat. Also, Murdoch definitely does not consider Tim his "leader"; never has, and never will. The group has an almost fanatical lawful good detail oriented inclination, but the founding members (CG and LN), don't necessarily have this vision.
And do keep in mind that Murdoch's and Fin's followers are manning the flying ship.
Finally, I think that things have somewhat degenerated, and a vision from both Helm and Ilmalter would resolve things (although I thought that the direct intervention of a CG god would be enough... and I hope Oberon is not spiteful, Alethia's mouth is bound to get her into trouble!
BTW: this situation is awesome roleplaying goodness, and I am definitely enjoying this character development opportunity! I hope y'all are feeling the same way (and this won't cause the group - and possibly the game - to break up). :\
Cheers,
SG
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DM_Matt said:
Timrin shrugs off the few remaining Thayans clinging to him as their attention is now drawn by the Valkries and sudden surge of Marcos men.
He stands wearily and walks toward the lead Valkrie sword held low and non-threatening. He looks about the carnage and chaos. The smell of blood and charred bodies, shouts of pain and curses, broken bodies, feral looks, and dripping swords swords assail his senses. He looks over his shoulder at Shando and Sarah, at Marise and the archons; his frustration is evident yet he appears defeated.
He looks back to the Valkrie and her bloodlust disgusts him. "I have seen my share of war and your zeal escapes me. We do not agree. We will never agree."
"Your law is not my law, but it is no less valid. This 'mistake' is mine. I had no Rashemi authority to offer a surrender. I hold no office here."
To Shando, Alethia, and Naverone he says mentally...[sblock]'You have a touch of the divine. You know redemption. Yet I ask you, are we right here? There is little doubt these men are truly evil. Can evil be redeemed? Absolutely. We have also laid many a foe low without asking the same question. The problem here is the treatment of prisoners or perhaps, for us more lawful types, are they prisoners at all? I had no authority to offer a surrender. Would we have blinked if three days from now they were all hanged after an official trial? Does it matter how they die provided it is swift and painless?'
'I do not know the right answer. I am mortal. I am flawed. I am not so confident that my law trumps Rashemi law to stake my life here. I am sorry if you think less of me.'
'So... is this where we draw the line in the sand and fight for an ideal or do we stand aside and allow Rashemi justice to take its course?'[/sblock]
DM_Matt said:
Timrin looks absently at the vials that appear in his hand. With a disgusted snort, he tucks them into his belt. 'I'll deal with that later', he thinks.
frostrune said:
Alethia stands knowing that while her mouth does indeed get her into trouble from time to time, she speaks also with the conviction of a truly good person. She does not blame Oberone or the Rashemi, she understands all too well their anger and rage at the Thayans. She doesn't even blame Murdoch, she understands his actions, even as she is repulsed by them.
"They laid down their weapons, believing that they would be treated fairly. Not slaughtered. Yes they are evil, but that doesn't give us the excuse to mete out that kind of revenge." Alethia said heavily, both out loud and mentally "I have no taste for killing a helpless foe Timrin; neither of us are executioners. We are warriors yes, we fight to the last breath yes for the light, for good. Let me ask you all this. Because the enemy is cruel, does that give us the excuse to be as cruel? It's a slippery slope that leads straight to the final level of hell."
The light around her is bright, brighter than ever before. "I don't know what's right either Timrin, I'm as mortal as you, I make mistakes too." she rubbed her hands wearily over her eyes. "I can only do the best that I can, to follow what I think is right, hoping that it is. Not even the gods can see all things, even they have limits, even if it is self imposed and greater than we can possibly imagine. This is.... Truly beyond us Timrin."
"Let the gods decide their fate. And we will abide by that decision," she said finally and kneeling, she sends a heart felt prayer up, praying for this matter to be resolved without further strife.
ooc:
Alethia probably registers more towards the 'good' side of things than either law or chaos at this time. Because of what she is, she can see both sides are equally valid, but.... Well she has to go with what she feels is right.
Don't worry.... Alethia isn't the vengeful or spiteful sort. Neither is Naverone. They both know too well what lies down that path. I think that they will be somewhat.... disappointed in Murdoch, but they understand why he did what he did and why the Rashemi and Oberone feel what they feel. Remember, they slew the Master of Nature, they know what the Thayans did and they know that not everyone can be as they are.
Unlike some, they can talk the talk as they walk the walk.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
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Shando speaks to Timrin verbally: "My friend I am as mortal and fallible as you are. I have little doubt that these men are guilty of the crimes they are accused of and should be punished according to the laws of those they have wronged, but I will not stand aside and watched them be slaughtered like helpless animals. To do so would be a violation of what I believe in. We may have not had any legal authority here in Rasheman to order their surrender, but we did have the moral authority to offer them the chance to lay down their arms and face judgement at a later time. They did so, trusting in your word as a Paladin that they would not be slaughtered. I stand by and with your word. I will not allow those who can't defend themselves to die at this point in time. It does matter in the long run.
He faces out to the oncoming mob: "Look at yourselves: You are so caught up in the bloodlust that the only thing you can think of is killing and revenge. You want to kill them so badly, that you are even willing to stoop to their level and kill those that are unable to protect themselves. Do the unconscious Thayvians at our feet scare you that much? Are they truly that much of a threat to you, lying here, unable to raise a weapon in their own defense? Will you one day tell great tavern stories on how you freed this city by slitting the throats of the helpless warriors? Will you boast of such feats to your children and grandchildren? Will bards write great epic poems and songs about your "valorous" deeds this day? Is that what passes for your warrior culture in Rasheman? Is that something you can truly be proud of? You can have your justice on those that can defend themselves for that is your law, how you decide the rightness of things, but these that are unable to to defend themselves, you can wait. There has been enough death this day."
Shando looks over the the Valkyrie: "It is said the the Valkyrie are Battle Maidens, taking valiant and worthy warriors to their final rest. Battle is in your nature. It is who and what you are. I would no more expect you not to fight then I would expect a carp to walk on dry land, but what you want to do to those at my feet is not battle, but butchery. Is that what the Valkyrie have come to now? Have they run out of opponents to fight across the planes, so now they must fight those that cannot defend themselves? Who will your next mighty opponents be? Babes in the arms of their mothers? The blind or cripple? You are creatures of chaos? Is not one of the most touted arguments for chaos out there, freedom? You are free to choose to act or not to act? I ask now, that you choose not to act in this case, until those here are able to defend themselves properly. Who knows, there may be one here that could give you a battle worthy of a Valkyrie. You would never know because they were slaughtered in their sleep. I will tell you this: If you do come for them, battle is what you will have. I may die this day, but I will die standing by my principles." Shando lights up with his Holy Radiance. "I have Ilmater's blessing this day. You have Lord Oberon's. Do we truly want to risk their champions' this day over something that can wait a few days and best be left in mortal hands?
Sarah, seeing Shando light up, does the same.
OOC: Gorak, there is a bit of a threat there in your OOC in regards to the flying ship. This is a game, nothing more to me, but I don't take kindly to threats. Impyling that the flying ship gives you some sort of hold over my character or the others doesn't sit well with me. I will play my character as I see fit within the bounds of his personality and background. Having Helm or Ilmater suddenly appear and defuse the situation is a cop out. I am certain they have better things to do than trying to stop an argument in Rasheman. This isn't the first time I have been on either side of a conflict between LG and CG and it probably will not be the last. Inter-party conflict is part and parcel of D&D. If you haven't ever been involved in one, you haven't been playing very long. In one party that I was in, the characters would often resort to fist fights. If I could remind you of something: It was Sir Timrin's cohort that brought yours back from the dead was it not? Your character didn't seem to have a problem with people who stood behind the shield of righteousness then. Why now? No worries, I have no plans on leaving because of this kind of disagreement. I am sure the others feel the same. We all appear to enjoy the drama way too much. 
Hawkeye
He faces out to the oncoming mob: "Look at yourselves: You are so caught up in the bloodlust that the only thing you can think of is killing and revenge. You want to kill them so badly, that you are even willing to stoop to their level and kill those that are unable to protect themselves. Do the unconscious Thayvians at our feet scare you that much? Are they truly that much of a threat to you, lying here, unable to raise a weapon in their own defense? Will you one day tell great tavern stories on how you freed this city by slitting the throats of the helpless warriors? Will you boast of such feats to your children and grandchildren? Will bards write great epic poems and songs about your "valorous" deeds this day? Is that what passes for your warrior culture in Rasheman? Is that something you can truly be proud of? You can have your justice on those that can defend themselves for that is your law, how you decide the rightness of things, but these that are unable to to defend themselves, you can wait. There has been enough death this day."
Shando looks over the the Valkyrie: "It is said the the Valkyrie are Battle Maidens, taking valiant and worthy warriors to their final rest. Battle is in your nature. It is who and what you are. I would no more expect you not to fight then I would expect a carp to walk on dry land, but what you want to do to those at my feet is not battle, but butchery. Is that what the Valkyrie have come to now? Have they run out of opponents to fight across the planes, so now they must fight those that cannot defend themselves? Who will your next mighty opponents be? Babes in the arms of their mothers? The blind or cripple? You are creatures of chaos? Is not one of the most touted arguments for chaos out there, freedom? You are free to choose to act or not to act? I ask now, that you choose not to act in this case, until those here are able to defend themselves properly. Who knows, there may be one here that could give you a battle worthy of a Valkyrie. You would never know because they were slaughtered in their sleep. I will tell you this: If you do come for them, battle is what you will have. I may die this day, but I will die standing by my principles." Shando lights up with his Holy Radiance. "I have Ilmater's blessing this day. You have Lord Oberon's. Do we truly want to risk their champions' this day over something that can wait a few days and best be left in mortal hands?
Sarah, seeing Shando light up, does the same.
OOC: Gorak, there is a bit of a threat there in your OOC in regards to the flying ship. This is a game, nothing more to me, but I don't take kindly to threats. Impyling that the flying ship gives you some sort of hold over my character or the others doesn't sit well with me. I will play my character as I see fit within the bounds of his personality and background. Having Helm or Ilmater suddenly appear and defuse the situation is a cop out. I am certain they have better things to do than trying to stop an argument in Rasheman. This isn't the first time I have been on either side of a conflict between LG and CG and it probably will not be the last. Inter-party conflict is part and parcel of D&D. If you haven't ever been involved in one, you haven't been playing very long. In one party that I was in, the characters would often resort to fist fights. If I could remind you of something: It was Sir Timrin's cohort that brought yours back from the dead was it not? Your character didn't seem to have a problem with people who stood behind the shield of righteousness then. Why now? No worries, I have no plans on leaving because of this kind of disagreement. I am sure the others feel the same. We all appear to enjoy the drama way too much.
Hawkeye
OOC: Obviously this is all happening in the heat of battle but I want to make sure I understand where you all are coming from.
I will state how I perceive your character's point of view but please correct me if I go astray.
Alethia: Morally objects to the whole the situation. These men should be taken prisoner and allowed opportunity to repent and find redemption. Extrapolating this line of thought, she would object to any form of execution whether officially court ordered or vigilante mob.
Shando: Uncomfortable from a moral standpoint but willing to concede Rashemi law. His greatest concern seems to be for those that are unconscious and unable to defend themselves or simply face confront their executioners. Those remaining Thayans on their feet and fighting can meet their punishment honestly.
Timrin: Made a mistake by offering surrender. It is certainly what he feels is right. There was no need for further killing. But, he now recognizes he had no authority to do so. If Rashemi law has a 'take no prisoners' policy against the Thayans, Timrin may morally disagree with it but he cannot say the law is unjust. In his own country, the hangman's noose or headman's axe are very real and legitimate punishment for heinous crimes. He would not have reason to object were such 'killings' meted out by the proper authorities.
So here is his quandry... if he were to 'win' and enforce his rules, take the men prisoner, have them legitimately tried and ultimately sentenced to be executed; he would not blink an eye. The end result (prisoners executed by legitimate authority) is the same. Different method, same result. Which is better?
The Thayans are on the verge of death without a doubt but the majority of them are not defenseless and have been encouraged to pick up swords and defend themselves. They may not have much of a chance but this is certainly not murder. I see it much like Roman gladiatorial death or a wild west showdown. Barbaric to us in this modern day perhaps but not at all uncommon in a psuedo medieval world.
At this point, Timrin can identify with Shando's position and would support it; even if it is only putting off their inevitable execution. To him, Alethia's position is too 'idealistic' and is grounded more on celestial philosophy than practical 'real-world' solutions.
As for Steve's prior email, I didn't take any of it as threatening. He was just reminding everyone of the facts. For whatever reason Timrin has been thrust into the role of leader, but, he in fact, is not. Fin and Murdock are the founders of the company and realistically control the assets (including the ship).
Assuming we survive this little moral quandry. The company has to ask some very hard questions going forward.
Can we continue to work together?
Can we trust each other?
Will things be forgiven?
This all makes for a great story IMO. I am however, concerned about a party split. Can the Hidden Shield survive? Can this PBEM survive? I hope so :\
I will state how I perceive your character's point of view but please correct me if I go astray.
Alethia: Morally objects to the whole the situation. These men should be taken prisoner and allowed opportunity to repent and find redemption. Extrapolating this line of thought, she would object to any form of execution whether officially court ordered or vigilante mob.
Shando: Uncomfortable from a moral standpoint but willing to concede Rashemi law. His greatest concern seems to be for those that are unconscious and unable to defend themselves or simply face confront their executioners. Those remaining Thayans on their feet and fighting can meet their punishment honestly.
Timrin: Made a mistake by offering surrender. It is certainly what he feels is right. There was no need for further killing. But, he now recognizes he had no authority to do so. If Rashemi law has a 'take no prisoners' policy against the Thayans, Timrin may morally disagree with it but he cannot say the law is unjust. In his own country, the hangman's noose or headman's axe are very real and legitimate punishment for heinous crimes. He would not have reason to object were such 'killings' meted out by the proper authorities.
So here is his quandry... if he were to 'win' and enforce his rules, take the men prisoner, have them legitimately tried and ultimately sentenced to be executed; he would not blink an eye. The end result (prisoners executed by legitimate authority) is the same. Different method, same result. Which is better?
The Thayans are on the verge of death without a doubt but the majority of them are not defenseless and have been encouraged to pick up swords and defend themselves. They may not have much of a chance but this is certainly not murder. I see it much like Roman gladiatorial death or a wild west showdown. Barbaric to us in this modern day perhaps but not at all uncommon in a psuedo medieval world.
At this point, Timrin can identify with Shando's position and would support it; even if it is only putting off their inevitable execution. To him, Alethia's position is too 'idealistic' and is grounded more on celestial philosophy than practical 'real-world' solutions.
As for Steve's prior email, I didn't take any of it as threatening. He was just reminding everyone of the facts. For whatever reason Timrin has been thrust into the role of leader, but, he in fact, is not. Fin and Murdock are the founders of the company and realistically control the assets (including the ship).
Assuming we survive this little moral quandry. The company has to ask some very hard questions going forward.
Can we continue to work together?
Can we trust each other?
Will things be forgiven?
This all makes for a great story IMO. I am however, concerned about a party split. Can the Hidden Shield survive? Can this PBEM survive? I hope so :\
Alethia: Morally objects to the whole the situation. These men should be taken prisoner and allowed opportunity to repent and find redemption. Extrapolating this line of thought, she would object to any form of execution whether officially court ordered or vigilante mob.
ooc
Hole in one. Saints don't go for gratutitous execution. Neither do iritatingly redeemed demons. And I don't think that Oberone is going to get pissy with her. He might give her a little bit of a finger shaking, but that's about it, I mean she and Naverone both risked their lives and souls (literally) to free his people from bondage. They would do so again, cheerfully and without regret.
This is just a bit of a law-vs-chaos, exalted vs regular good conflict.
ooc
Hole in one. Saints don't go for gratutitous execution. Neither do iritatingly redeemed demons. And I don't think that Oberone is going to get pissy with her. He might give her a little bit of a finger shaking, but that's about it, I mean she and Naverone both risked their lives and souls (literally) to free his people from bondage. They would do so again, cheerfully and without regret.
This is just a bit of a law-vs-chaos, exalted vs regular good conflict.
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Steve Gorak
Hero
Hawkeye said:
[sblock=OCC] I sincerely apologize if I didn't properly word what I wanted to convey. Absolutely no threat was intended; I wanted to show that Murdoch has been in the organization since the beginning (his followers having been rescued from the stronghold in waterdeep & now manning the ship), thus reinforcing his perception that Tim is not the Hidden Shield's "official" leader.
Also, I have plenty of RPing experience, but not in FR. I was commenting on the fact that I'm glad that Murdoch now has an interesting character hook, something that he'll definitely want to explore (what exactly does it mean when a god calls you grandson? Is it a term Oberon uses freely, or is he using it in the litteral sense...). Anyways, just plain good stuff.
[/sblock]Steve Gorak
Hero
Hawkeye said:
Flying closer to Shando, Murdoch says for all to hear: "You will not die today my friend, not if I can prevent it" Turning to the Valkyrie "Fey kin, surely you can see that this wise monk speaks rightly. Allow the uncounscious men to wake, and face you. They may have no honor, but bards will sing of your honorable deed for ages to come!"
Murdoch says to Oberon mentally, hoping is is listening:
Grandfather, my friends have liberated this land. Please allow them this gift: to let the unconscious warriors wake, face death with their eyes open, a sword in their hands, so they may bring our warning to their gods: This land is ours!
OCC: And there goes the olive branch!
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