Herores of the Fallen Lands - Are Slayers underpowered?

[Spatula]

I like the idea of the Fighter-Slayer, but the execution seems lacking. I'm not seeing anything to compare with the Fighter-Knight's lockdown abilities, or the Rogue-Thief's sneak attack. And they seem to be a W-shaped class, needing STR, DEX and CON all high. Am I missing something? If not I'm tempted to houserule them a damage bonus.

A Slayer doesn't need CON at all, unless it's for feat pre-reqs, because they have defender hit points.

The thief is going to have higher damage totals when they hit with SA, but the slayer will be hitting more often, staying in the fight longer, and operating just fine without a flanking buddy.

The DEX bonus to damage is going to be what, +2? Unless they nerf STR. Seems unimpressive to me; Thieves get that +2 & CA +2d6 on top. I'll check the stances out again but they didn't initially seem much better than the Knight's for DPR.

A decent slayer should have a +3 Dex to start, either through racial bonuses or buying two 16's. 16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 8 is a perfectly viable array. At 8th level you're looking at +6 dmg (18 dex + 2 for levels), which is only slightly behind the thief's 2d6 SA.

The thief's +2 dmg merely brings the thief's smaller damage die up to par with the slayer's. The slayer is more accurate, can boost accuracy or damage even more with the stances, and doesn't require CA. Power Strike can't be wasted, unlike Backstab, and will generally be dealing more damage. The slayer also much sturdier than the thief.

 

[Storminator]

One of my players just made a 2nd level slayer for our game - 2d6+11 at will seems like a pretty good pile of damage to me. I think he also too the +2 damage stance to add on top of that.

PS

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If I were to play a Slayer, I would worry most about the problem that I have with my Knight right now -- virtually no ability to contribute to non-combat situations that don't involve carrying or knocking things down. It gets dreary after a while having every single NPC ignore your character except for slurs and smirks, and never being able to pipe up when there is a lock or trap to finagle, a scouting expedition needing volunteers, a shopkeeper to wrangle, a noble to charm, a trail to follow, a rune to decipher...

It's like going to a big scout gathering and being the only one with no badges on your uniform except the one for good attendance. (Scouts, feel free to explain that gatherings are called "gymborees", that uniforms are called "haversacks", that badges are called "nibnobs" and that there is no nibnob for good attendance. I'm here to learn.)

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

With their high Dex, Slayers can make for some decent sneaking around if you can find a way to train Stealth.

As has been mentioned, Melee Training (Dex) allows you to make Str less important, giving you the flexibility to boost another stat that has skills associated, like, say Cha (swashbuckler) or Wis (wilderness warrior).

Oh, and if I may - let's not turn this thread into another pointless DPR argument.

 

[sigfile]

If I were to play a Slayer, I would worry most about the problem that I have with my Knight right now -- virtually no ability to contribute to non-combat situations that don't involve carrying or knocking things down. It gets dreary after a while having every single NPC ignore your character except for slurs and smirks, and never being able to pipe up when there is a lock or trap to finagle, a scouting expedition needing volunteers, a shopkeeper to wrangle, a noble to charm, a trail to follow, a rune to decipher...

The out-of-the-box fighter skill set leaves a bit to be desired, but they do get Intimidate and Streetiwse as class options. It's unfortunate that CHA typically falls in priority right after STR, CON, WIS, and DEX.

I'm surprised your Knight gets so ignored, though. That build gets diplomacy as an option. While the Knight probably isn't the party face, a trained diplomacy score is usually respectable.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What skill is it MC Rogues get? Is it Thievery or Stealth?

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

What skill is it MC Rogues get? Is it Thievery or Stealth?

Depends on which one you take.

Sneak of Shadows gives Thievery, Sly Dodge gives Bluff or Intimidate, Ruthless Efficiency and Twilight Adept both give Stealth.

 

[mneme]

That skill list really is lackluster given that a Slayer is STR/dex--I guess they wanted to stick to the fighter list even if they were doing a striker subclass?

But with backgrounds & feats, it's not hard to get some nice Dex based skills; Acrobatics will up your mobility and give you something to do to entertain small children; Stealth is often a nice alternative for having a Charisma skill (don't have to talk to them if they don't know you're there ). I wouldn't go for Sneak of Shadows unless you're going with a Master of Arms build with quick weapon swapping -- as while Sneak Attack is nice spike damage, having to use a light weapon will cramp your style the rest of the time. OTOH, Twilight Adept's 1/encounter "hide in plain sight" is nifty, and so are Acolyte of the Veil (can use Ki Focuses [great for Masters of Arms] and 1/encoutner Shadow Step).

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I'm surprised your Knight gets so ignored, though. That build gets diplomacy as an option. While the Knight probably isn't the party face, a trained diplomacy score is usually respectable.

Didn't take Diplomacy, for both RP and mechanical reasons. With Cha 11 at level 16, training would bump Diplomacy up to +13, but that wouldn't be very useful in this campaign. Also, the party is full of serious Face characters.

Sure, there are ways it could be "fixed", but my point was more that many Slayers will be equally skill-challenged, and I have found that to be a serious drag.

 

[Storminator]

If I were to play a Slayer, I would worry most about the problem that I have with my Knight right now -- virtually no ability to contribute to non-combat situations that don't involve carrying or knocking things down. It gets dreary after a while having every single NPC ignore your character except for slurs and smirks, and never being able to pipe up when there is a lock or trap to finagle, a scouting expedition needing volunteers, a shopkeeper to wrangle, a noble to charm, a trail to follow, a rune to decipher...

It's like going to a big scout gathering and being the only one with no badges on your uniform except the one for good attendance. (Scouts, feel free to explain that gatherings are called "gymborees", that uniforms are called "haversacks", that badges are called "nibnobs" and that there is no nibnob for good attendance. I'm here to learn.)

IMC I've given PCs an extra trained skill and a free skill power to beef up the out of combat stuff. One of the design goals of my game is to use skill extensively. The set of essentials characters we're making now don't have those bonuses, but we're using them for a short break from the main game. If the online CB supported bonus feats I'd be using my regular house rule tho...

PS