Hexes vs. Squares Flanking

[MerricB]

One of the interesting things about 3D combat with hexes is that you end up with a hybrid system: the X-Y axis is plotted with hexes, but the Z axis is plotted with (effectively) squares.

So, assuming that you're using hexes to get a certain level of accuracy in distances without resorting to the 1-2-1-2 counting, all that falls apart once height is taken into account.

Even using squares, offset distances are a pain. Assume the differentials are X=3, Y=4 and Z=5. How many units between the two targets?

Well, the X-Y distance is 5. Once Z is taken into account, you're looking at about 7 units - basic Pythagoras' Theorem to calculate, but still a pain at the table.

When using hexes, the calculation becomes completely muddy once you aren't lucky enough to have a straight line of hexes in the way. It can be hoped that the hex approximation by counting is close enough.

Consider X=8, Y (being additional hexes at the 60 degree angle) being 6 and Z being 9. What is the distance between the two targets? Well, counting hexes you get X+Y=14, which then with Pythagoras's help gives about 17 units (16.6) being the distance between the two points. The actual answer? 15 (15.1) units. Yeah, that didn't work so well.

For accuracy between different heights, give me squares over hexes: the calculations are simpler.

Cheers!

 

[KarinsDad]

Consider X=8, Y (being additional hexes at the 60 degree angle) being 6 and Z being 9. What is the distance between the two targets? Well, counting hexes you get X+Y=14, which then with Pythagoras's help gives about 17 units (16.6) being the distance between the two points. The actual answer? 15 (15.1) units. Yeah, that didn't work so well.

In squares, that's x 11 (6 hexes at 60 degrees is the same as 3 hexes length, so 8+3) by y 5.2 by z 9 = 15.1.

But in 4E terms, the distance is 11 (the longest length). 16.6 is closer to 15.1 than 11 is.

If we don't use exact distance, but rather the hexes are 11x6x9 and the squares are 11x6x9, then the squares are 11, hexes are 16.6, but the grid distance is 15.4. Even closer for hexes.

 

[MerricB]

4E doesn't try for accuracy, so its numbers are irrelevant.

However, the difficulty of the calculation once you reach 3-dimensions with hexes is significantly harder than if you were using squares - because moving upwards with hexes abandons hexes.

 

[KarinsDad]

4E doesn't try for accuracy, so its numbers are irrelevant.

However, the difficulty of the calculation once you reach 3-dimensions with hexes is significantly harder than if you were using squares - because moving upwards with hexes abandons hexes.

The difference, though, is that at least you have the semi-accurate 2D horizontal distances with hexes before you then abandon accuracy for 3D.

3E did try for accuracy. And we had weird shaped Fireballs and such because of it. And the larger shapes actually needed either a player with a real good memory, or little metal guides to put down on the board.

A Fireball with hexes looks like a big hex and is easy to calculate. Hexes gives one both, some accuracy, and shapes that are easy to determine. 3E had some accuracy and shapes that are hard to determine. 4E has no accuracy and shapes that are easy to determine because they threw all shapes out the door except a cube and a wall. No cones, no lines, no spheres.

Hexes (and offset squares) have the better of both worlds.


And 4E threw most of the 3D aspect out of the game system anyway. Most PCs can almost never fly and if they can, it's typically for a whopping single turn. A few monsters can fly, but it is either at a far set distance like 80 feet (grids not really needed) and using ranged attacks, or it is so close in order to do melee that the PCs typically pull the monster down to the ground anyway. Meh. Your 3D accuracy argument means little to the game. 2D accuracy comes into play the vast majority of the time and 3D accuracy is hard for some players to visualize those few rare times that it really would make a difference.

If 4E was a game of some real "magic" where PCs could actually find ways to fly and the game became 3D at mid to high paragon and there actually were aerial battles where PCs and NPCs zoomed around the battlefield, than 3D accuracy might become an issue. As such, that's fairly rare unless the players themselves go way out of their way to attempt such a thing. Most players don't because the powers and items just aren't set up in order to do that conveniently.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, with grids a fireball is really a firecube. With hexes, a fireball is really a firehexagonalcylinder.

 

[KarinsDad]

So, with grids a fireball is really a firecube. With hexes, a fireball is really a firehexagonalcylinder.

I don't think there is even a name for what a fireball was in 3E.

 

[fanboy2000]

Sure there is, a jpeg artifact.

 

[Nifft]

Sure there is, a jpeg artifact.

My first internet girlfriend had a JPEG artifact...

"Sniffle", -- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

My first internet girlfriend had a JPEG artifact...

Did you get into a TIFF over it?

 

[Nifft]

Did you get into a TIFF over it?

We only fought when she was REDCODE (she had bad PNS).

Ah, those were the days. BMP'n uglies until they were RAW.