D&D General Hey, are we all cool with having to buy the same book twice, or what?

[LordEntrails]

What does 'SaaS' mean?

Software as a Service. Basically when you access something via a web browser, you are using a that as a service. The forum here at ENWorld is a SaaS offering. Just one we are very familiar with. And one that Morrus has no obligation to provide to us. Roll20 and DDB are Softwares that are provided as a service as well, and they have specific terms of use that you agree to when you use them. Which also include statements that they have no obligation to continue to provide that service to you.

If I buy what I think is a pdf of something, I expect to own that copy and be able to access/use it for life,just as if it was a hard-copy book. But if the pdf isn't downloadable and all I'm actually buying is the ability to access it on someone else's server, then as far as I'm concerned the vendor has made a commitment to maintain that access in perpetuity.

The law disagrees with you. Both in that what you buy on Roll20, DDB, and FG are not PDFs (and why would you ever think they were? Wanting something to be a PDF does not make it a PDF) and that you are entitled to access DDB and Roll20 in perpetuity. Think about how unfeasible such a statement is... So now that you have bought something from a website, for the rest of eternity that website and that content has to be available? Because in 100 years that server is still going to be working. We are still going to be using urls and web browsers. And in some manner they are now not even allowed to go out of business. How is that going to work?

"Sorry, I know your business is no longer profitable, but you have to keep running it. Yea, we know you already sold all your possessions to pay for that server, but you need to some how keep it going since you sold access to something like a PDF on it once upon a time. Well, yes, we know it was your great-great-great grandmother who started the company 200 years ago, but your obligated because the descendants of Lanefan still want to access their RPG content you sold them access to." (Silly I know!)

Now, with FG I can give my content to my children, because it resides on my computer. But even that is unlikely to be usable as is in a hundred years, because operating systems are going to be very different than they are today and FG won't "run" on such platforms. But, the content will certainly be accessible since it's just a file on a computer.

Now, how does that compare to a printed book? Books can last a long time. If they are printed on quality paper with quality ink. But of course they are susceptible to water, fire, bugs and other hazards. Which if you properly backup your digital files are not.

 

[billd91]

Now, how does that compare to a printed book? Books can last a long time. If they are printed on quality paper with quality ink. But of course they are susceptible to water, fire, bugs and other hazards. Which if you properly backup your digital files are not.

Even in the case of backed up digital files, there's little guarantee a format will remain supported as the years go on. A lot of early digital repositories are difficult if not impossible to access because the data formats are obsolete.

 

[LordEntrails]

Even in the case of backed up digital files, there's little guarantee a format will remain supported as the years go on. A lot of early digital repositories are difficult if not impossible to access because the data formats are obsolete.

Funny how you ignored the paragraph above the one you quoted. You know, the one where I said;

But even that is unlikely to be usable as is in a hundred years, because operating systems are going to be very different than they are today and FG won't "run" on such platforms. But, the content will certainly be accessible since it's just a file on a computer.

Though even accessibility of the files might be an issue someday (though I doubt it, but that's another discussion).

 

[Guest 6801328]

Software as a Service. Basically when you access something via a web browser, you are using a that as a service.

Spoiler: Off-topic Pedantry

I think that's a little misleading because it suggests that it's the fact that it's delivered over a browser that makes it software as a service. SaaS is a licensing model not a technology, and while certainly more and more web-delivered content is delivered under a SaaS model, it is by no means a requirement for browser-enabled applications.

If, for example, your company uses software internally, and you can access it via the web, it's possible (although increasingly rare) that your company is running the software on their own computers, and that's where your browser is pointing. Technically that's almost identical to SaaS, but we don't call it that.

Client-server is an architecture, not a licensing model. I'm having trouble imagining how you would have a SaaS model without client-server interactions. If you are using a web application that is being hosted on a server, and your interactions stay in communication with that server, that's client-server. But if you load a web page that has a Javascript application running entirely inside your browser, and not communicating with the server, that's not client-server. The server hosts the code, but isn't executing the application.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I can think of a half dozen reasons they aren't selling PDFs. None of them are particularly nefarious. Basically it boils down to providing a PDF would be overhead they don't want to deal with given the structure of their supply chain and they don't think it would be profitable.

There's no evil plot to make you suffer, PDFs simply aren't a justifiable expenditure on return. If it were they would sell them.

What, you mean using the InDesign files they already have that are print ready and require a few hours work to optimize for PDF usage? Or, do you mean uploading them to Drivethru using the official WOTC account that already exists?

Neither of these incurs virtually any expense or additional overhead. In what world is this not a justifiable ROI? 99% of these costs are already sunk with the InDesign file generated, book laid out, pre-existing marketplace etc.

 

[Bravesteel25]

What, you mean using the InDesign files they already have that are print ready and require a few hours work to optimize for PDF usage? Or, do you mean uploading them to Drivethru using the official WOTC account that already exists?

Neither of these incurs virtually any expense or additional overhead. In what world is this not a justifiable ROI? 99% of these costs are already sunk with the InDesign file generated, book laid out, pre-existing marketplace etc.

I agree with you on this. I think, just as I and others have said, they simply prefer to bolster the potential value of their licensees by not providing the PDF format.

 

[Oofta]

What, you mean using the InDesign files they already have that are print ready and require a few hours work to optimize for PDF usage? Or, do you mean uploading them to Drivethru using the official WOTC account that already exists?

Neither of these incurs virtually any expense or additional overhead. In what world is this not a justifiable ROI? 99% of these costs are already sunk with the InDesign file generated, book laid out, pre-existing marketplace etc.

There are a lot of direct and indirect expenses you're not taking into consideration.

They're a corporation in the business of making money. If they could publish and turn a profit while not causing other offsetting expenses and costs they would.

 

[Oofta]

I agree with you on this. I think, just as I and others have said, they simply prefer to bolster the potential value of their licensees by not providing the PDF format.

Which is just one cost of publishing PDFs. There's also distribution and control, brand image, a whole slew of things that marketing people and lawyers take into consideration that we simply are not privy to.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I agree with you on this. I think, just as I and others have said, they simply prefer to bolster the potential value of their licensees by not providing the PDF format.

I mean, we can't know this for sure, but it seems the most likely scenario. Not providing PDFs was likely a conscious decision to protect the investment of the licensees, definitely.

 

[Bravesteel25]

Which is just one cost of publishing PDFs. There's also distribution and control, brand image, a whole slew of things that marketing people and lawyers take into consideration that we simply are not privy to.

Yes, especially in regards to distribution, which through the Dungeon Masters Guild would cause a portion of their profit to go to One Book Shelf.

That being said, having worked in marketing (and the publication that went with that) most of that cost has already been incurred with the development of the book in the first place. Exporting it to a PDF file is trivial at that point.

I think, just as @eyeheartawk said above, that we can't know for sure but the truth probably lies in the realm of being a conscious decision due to external factors lying with the distribution costs (and the affect that would have on their licensees) and some legal concerns around protecting their brand much as Games Workshop does.