Hey Big Brains Check this thread out! AKA Whirlwind with a 5' step?

[SpikeyFreak]

I agree with CRGreathouse.

Taking a 5 foot step in the middle of a whirlwind is rediculous IMHO.

--Backwards Spikey

 

[hong]

I'd like to point out that you can't move in the middle of a great cleave either. The only exception to this, is the Frenzied Berserker from MotW. If you have Supreme Cleave, that will let you take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the cleave or great cleave feat.

You can, however, take one 5-foot step _between iterative attacks_ during a full attack action, while using Great Cleave following each iterative attack. This is probably as good as Supreme Cleave.

 

[Uller]

Seems clear to me: You can move DURING a full-attack action. WWA is a full attack(says so in the feat). So you can take a 5' step during the attack. However, it seems clear to me that the intent was NOT to allow you to use this to gain more targets as a result of your movement. Otherwise, one could conceivabley attack THIRTEEN opponents! Consider the following example:

XXX
XBXX
XXAX
_XXX

_ = space
X = monster
B = monster who dies pre-5' step
A = Whirlwind Attacking character.

A attacks, everyone around him, kills B and "during" his attack, he steps into the late B's space and attacks the rest. Silly. Silly I say!


My number one rule as a DM when judging this stuff: If it feels like abuse...it probably is.

 

[EOL]

My number one rule as a DM when judging this stuff: If it feels like abuse...it probably is.

I agree. When all is said and done it would be impossible to argue that this wouldn't be abusive, despite whatever loophole someone thinks they may have found. Plus I don't think that there's any loophole in the first place. At best you might allow Virago's reading of it, but anything beyond that and I think you haven't merely missed the designers intent, you've left designers intent and the bus stop and have a one way ticket to Oz (and the land of the munchkins).

 

[kreynolds]

You can, however, take one 5-foot step _between iterative attacks_ during a full attack action, while using Great Cleave following each iterative attack. This is probably as good as Supreme Cleave.

It's not as good at all. Consider this you cleave through 1, then another, but the 3rd is a 5 feet away from you and out of your way. What you can do is stop your cleave, take a step, and smack him in the face. If you have Supreme Cleave, you cleave through 1, then another, take 5-foot step and cleave into the 3rd guy. Without Supreme Cleave, you have to stop your cleave. Supreme Cleave saves you an attack in this circumstance. So it is very handy to have around. Especially, if one of the guys you want to cleave has a 10 foot reach weapon, cause you can just step towards him and continue your cleave into his face, without ever stopping your cleave and having to use yet another iterative attack.

 

[Christian]

You can, however, take one 5-foot step _between iterative attacks_ during a full attack action, while using Great Cleave following each iterative attack. This is probably as good as Supreme Cleave.

Nope. Check out my first post in this thread for a detailed example of a situation where Supreme Cleave is useful ...

 

[hong]

Nope. Check out my first post in this thread for a detailed example of a situation where Supreme Cleave is useful ...

Well, one way or the other, you can still get all the bad guys.

Really, if you're fighting mooks who are weak enough to go down with one hit, the chances are you're probably going to hit them regardless of whether it's your first or second iterative attack. I think Supreme Cleave is overrated, basically.

(Now the _original_ version, where you could theoretically cleave your way to China, is a different story....)

 

[CRGreathouse]

(Now the _original_ version, where you could theoretically cleave your way to China, is a different story....)

I had a character who was going to invade the kobold stronghold extressly for the purpose of testing this.

 

[Christian]

Yeah, but ... um ... these goblins have full plate armor and large shields! And rings of protection! And amulets of natural armor! And ... oh, never mind.

 

[Uller]

I had a character who was going to invade the kobold stronghold extressly for the purpose of testing this.

Of course I'd expect the blind kobald leader of the tribe to always be at least 10' away from his nearest underling(and being a 20th level sorcerer, he'd just Power Word, Kill you...