Hide in Plain Sight - DM Advice

[Crust]

OK, so what if he gets into melee, delivers a full round attack, then on his next turn decides to hide? Would that hide check suffer a -20? He's not attacking, charging, or running during that turn. Once he's hidden, why couldn't the PC move within five feet of the target while still hidden, and then deliver a full round attack... and then repeat that process?

See, these are the things this player will think up. He wants his PC to be untouchable in melee, and instead of spending an hour discussing how the ability should work, I need to iron these things out and have them ready without coming off like I'm trying to castrate the ability.

 

[Pbartender]

He's actually a NG male half-orc werewolf (long story) ranger 3/stalker of Kharash 3 (Exalted Deeds), and he gets hide in plain sight as a 4th level stalker, much earlier than a typical ranger.

Out of curiosity... What's the wording of the ability in the Stalker of Kharash class? Not all Hide in Plain Sight abilities are the same.

Compare, for example, the Ranger's ability with that of the Assassin or Shadowdancer.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

 

[Crust]

This is from the Book of Exalted Deeds:

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):When a stalker of Kharash reaches 4th level, he can use the Hide skill even while being observed. With at least one-quarter cover or one-quarter concealment, the stalker can hide from view.

The last sentence can be misread, suggesting that a stalker can only hide in plain sight with at least one-quarter cover or concealment. The Hide skill simply says that the PC needs cover. No percentage is given, so I don't really know why that second sentence is even included.

 

[Pbartender]

The last sentence can be misread, suggesting that a stalker can only hide in plain sight with at least one-quarter cover or concealment. The Hide skill simply says that the PC needs cover. No percentage is given, so I don't really know why that second sentence is even included.

Because it makes a big difference...

The Assassin and Shadowdancers don't need any sort of cover or concealment, only a shadow. If they stand on a featureless plain, but it's near sunset and the shadow of a distant mountain falls across them, they can still hide in plain sight.

A Ranger in natural terrain doesn't require any cover or concealment to Hide in Plain Sight due to his earlier Camoflage ability.

Whereas, the Stalker can only Hide in Plain Sight, if some sort of cover or concealment is available... That's not a misreading; that's the specific rules for this particular ability. That makes the ability a lot less useful in combat, as many combats don't take place within ready reach of cover or concealment of any kind. And even if that cover/concealment is there, that doesn't mean it's within striking distance of the enemy he wants to attack.

 

[airwalkrr]

OK, so what if he gets into melee, delivers a full round attack, then on his next turn decides to hide? Would that hide check suffer a -20? He's not attacking, charging, or running during that turn. Once he's hidden, why couldn't the PC move within five feet of the target while still hidden, and then deliver a full round attack... and then repeat that process?

Then he would be limited to a standard action for his attack on the second round. Otherwise, he has to lose an entire turn waiting to make a full attack, and a lot can happen in a turn. For example, the target could move more than 5 ft. away.

Round 1
Full Round Action: Full attack

Round 2
Move Action: Hide
Standard Action: Something else

 

[Crust]

Whereas, the Stalker can only Hide in Plain Sight, if some sort of cover or concealment is available... That's not a misreading; that's the specific rules for this particular ability. That makes the ability a lot less useful in combat, as many combats don't take place within ready reach of cover or concealment of any kind. And even if that cover/concealment is there, that doesn't mean it's within striking distance of the enemy he wants to attack.

Yes! Thank you!

 

[Boondoggle]

If the character is a melee build, I don't think it will be much of an issue. If he wants a full attack, he has to open himself up to one from his target, if not others. The situation that can make this ability over-powered is with archery; specifically, (improved) manyshot.