Hide in plain sight question.

[Wobber]

EDIT


Okay, thanks for your help! Really appreciated.

 

[frankthedm]

But the attacker is considered invisible to the target, so when he attacks the defender loses his Dex modifier and can be sneak attacked.

No he is not. Reread Hide. Nowhere is it said a hidden attacker is considered invisible to the target. A hidden character may be visually undetected, an invisible character is visually undetectable. Being invisible adds a huge and seperate amount to hide [+20] so it is not the same as hiding.

 

[Nail]

I find the lack of official info on the combat results of Hide facinating. It's an obvious trouble spot, known since 3.0e. *Many people* think of Hide = Invisibility, even though the rules don't say that.

They did nothing with this problem area in 3.5e, right?

 

[TheEvil]

No he is not. Reread Hide. Nowhere is it said a hidden attacker is considered invisible to the target. A hidden character may be visually undetected, an invisible character is visually undetectable. Being invisible adds a huge and seperate amount to hide [+20] so it is not the same as hiding.

I am mildly interested to hear your rational for how being hidden is different from being invisible. Is it a different kind of not being seen?

 

[Nail]

"Not being seen" is not the same as "undetectable by vision". Simple enough.

 

[hong]

Okay, so a "hips" character can walk to an enemy sneak attack, hide. Next round: sneak attack, hide. Another round: sneak attack, hide. Unlimited imp. invisibility ? :\

With greater invis, you can make a full attack every round. With HiPS, you can't.

 

[TheEvil]

"Not being seen" is not the same as "undetectable by vision". Simple enough.

Practically speaking, what are the differences?

 

[MrBudweg]

isn't it possiable to detect an invisable opponent with a sucessful spot check? that is why they include a hide modifier to the spell...
right?

 

[Darklone]

Partially. Sometimes it's easier to spot an invisible person than his hidden buddy.

 

[mikebr99]

I find the lack of official info on the combat results of Hide facinating. It's an obvious trouble spot, known since 3.0e. *Many people* think of Hide = Invisibility, even though the rules don't say that.

They did nothing with this problem area in 3.5e, right?

Well... in C. Adv (p.102) in the expanded skills description chapter: ..."You can use this option (moving between cover) to sneak up on someone from a hiding place. For every 5ft. of open space between you and the target, you take a -5 to your hide check. If your hide check succeeds... target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you."

... and flat-footed =

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed.
A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Mike