D&D 3E/3.5 Hide Skill (3.5), It's at least a move action!

[Gnimish88]

That hiding while charging part is pretty fun, I wonder what situation would actually allow this (well w/o HiPS that is - altho HiPS (SD) needs a standard action, so isn't actually possible during charging, anyways), as you cannot hide, if you are being observed and charge requires a pretty free "line of sight".

*snip*

Bye
Thanee

Um, why would HiPS be a standard action? I realize that supernatural abilities usually take a standard action, but it seems to me that the action for HiPS would be one of the exceptions and use the same action as the one used to make the hide check. HiPS allows you to use the hide skill without concealment, it doesn't say anything about replacing the hide check. If you make it a standard action to activate HiPS, then it seems like you make it a full round action to actually hide in plain sight.

 

[Nail]

HiPS is not a Standard Action.

....that's "part of the problem". Because, as most of us know, that implies that it *might* be possible to full attack someone while HiPS......which, IMO, seems ridiculous.

 

[Thanee]

Um, why would HiPS be a standard action?

Well...

I realize that supernatural abilities usually take a standard action, but it seems to me that the action for HiPS would be one of the exceptions and use the same action as the one used to make the hide check.

Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

No "usually" there.

HiPS allows you to use the hide skill without concealment, it doesn't say anything about replacing the hide check. If you make it a standard action to activate HiPS, then it seems like you make it a full round action to actually hide in plain sight.

Well, the HiPS description is pretty whacky for sure.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

I guess it can be argued (really it makes sense), that this is not one of those supernatural ability, that have to be activated, but normally they should have declared this as an exception.

Maybe one could say, that "can use the Hide skill" somewhat includes that exception, as using the Hide skill is another type of action.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

1. Can't sneak attack with concealment (sniping is the exception).

You can be in a square that provides concealment, adjacent to someone in a square that does not provide concealment. You can hide (since you have concealment) and sneak attack him (since he does not have concealment).

Alternatively, you can hide with cover, and sneak attack (against an opponent with a cover bonus to AC).

You could even hide while using a Blur spell to provide concealment, which would certainly not provide your opponent with concealment, making him sneakable.

Much like with invisibility, after your attack you would no longer be hidden... but the first attack would work.

-Hyp.

 

[Deset Gled]

Close, real close. But the phb states:
...
RotG clarifies this by saying, in no uncertain terms... hide is at least a move action, or can be combined with one.

Gah, you're right. I managed to both misread the RotG quote and get my terminology mixed up.

 

[Nail]

....You could even hide while using a Blur spell to provide concealment, ....

Errr? You can hide using the concealment provided by Blur? Huh. ...you sure?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Errr? You can hide using the concealment provided by Blur? Huh. ...you sure?

Why not?

"The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance)."

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check."

-Hyp.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Well...
Originally Posted by SRD
Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

No "usually" there.

Er... so, according to your line of reasoning, it takes a Shadowdancer a standard action to use Darkvision? After all:

Originally Posted by SRD
Darkvision (Su): At 2nd level, a shadowdancer can see in the dark as though she were permanently under the effect of a darkvision spell.

And don't forget Arcane Archers:

Originally Posted by SRD
Enhance Arrow (Su): At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level).

You're saying that the "every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical" part should actually read "if an Arcane Archer spends a standard action, a single arrow he nocks and lets fly becomes magical"

Ridiculous. Obviously, not all Supernatural abilities require a standard action.

HiPS does not take any sort fo action other than what it enables: the move action (or part-of-move action) that hiding requires.

I guess it can be argued (really it makes sense), that this is not one of those supernatural ability, that have to be activated, but normally they should have declared this as an exception.

Maybe one could say, that "can use the Hide skill" somewhat includes that exception, as using the Hide skill is another type of action.

Now you got it.

-z

 

[Nail]

Why not?

"The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance)."

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check."

-Hyp.

So really, you can "hide in plain sight" (not a supernatural power) using a Blur spell. Fascinating.

So now whether or not you can hide during a Full Attack action becomes quite relevant.

 

[Zaruthustran]

So really, you can "hide in plain sight" (not a supernatural power) using a Blur spell. Fascinating.

Well, not all the time. A lot depends on this:

SRD:
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

If a blurry guy walks into the room people will see that blurry guy. Sure, he'll be blurry--but he'll be observed. Therefore, he can't hide.

If a blurry guy first hides, then moves into the room while hiding... that's a DM call. Kind of a chicken and egg thing.

Personally, I'd allow Blurred characters to hide then sneak. Kind of like how a chameleon hides: sure, it's RIGHT THERE in plain sight, but hard to see.

But, also like a chameleon, once you spot it it's easy to keep track of. I'd make it work like other uses of hide/HiPS: once you attack you're considered "observed" until you have a chance to rehide.

-z