High fantasy and gunpowder, with a twist: How would such a world look like?

[Synicism]

One thing about cannon. They didn't spell the doom of the medieval castle quite as quickly as many people think, if the History Channel is to be believed.

I was watching a special on guns where they fired a replica of an early metal cannon at a stone wall built like a castle wall.

They filmed the impacts with a slow motion camera. Most of the balls shattered on impact. Some bounced. Some of the stone flaked.

 

[MythandLore]

One thing about cannon. They didn't spell the doom of the medieval castle quite as quickly as many people think, if the History Channel is to be believed.

I was watching a special on guns where they fired a replica of an early metal cannon at a stone wall built like a castle wall.

They filmed the impacts with a slow motion camera. Most of the balls shattered on impact. Some bounced. Some of the stone flaked.

Yeppers, you got that right.
The stone wall has a lot of mass.
This is why forts made of stone could be very well defended against ships.
Anyway, that's why most people think of gunpowder weapons as a high seas thing, cannon balls were very good at going thru wood, and the "special shot" like chains etc. could be fired out of a cannon and rip sails etc to shreds.

 

[Black Omega]

I figure that magic armor does protect like a ranged touch attack But let's say your armor is normally AC +8 : +2 Banded or something. The pistol reduces non magic AC by 5

Are you going to keep wearing it if it gives you no more than AC+3 against likely threats? No way.
You would be better served with +2 Stuudded leather. Light Comfortable and almost as protective +5 VS Meele +2 VS Missle vs +8 Meele +3 Vs Missle.

In a practical way this has a point. But game wise, I think most PC's will go with the max protection, not max comfort. And muskets didn't exactly phase out armor. I'm sure there were many types of european armor were made to resist firearms of the time. I know there were Japanese types made specially ro resist bullets. Add in the element of magic and you'd see armor with enchantments to resist bullets.

In a low magic setting firearms could make a huge difference. The more common and powerful magic is, the less difference the firearms would make.

There are many ingenious ways to use cannon..

Frex
Hide them with magic in a sheep field. Dragon swoops down to eat. Blammmo 20 rounds hit him.

Weld two together and put them on an iron golem for a hellish first punch.. Can you say Mecha?

I like the cannons on a iron golem idea. Very slow firing unless there is an enchantment to speed of the firing, but it's a cool idea. I might use that

The cannons would have surprise once or twice with ambushes like that. But almost any adult dragon is at least above average intelligence. It seems like it would get harder and harder t create traps that would be effective

Mount them on a fortress. In addition to the fireballs and other zappy spells he is facing he has to deal with cannons.
A magic cannon ball could be made easily enough. Have a few in the armoury for special occasions. Look Cannon Balls of +2 Icy Burst Red Dragon Slaying . The ROF of a cannon is slow, so True strike really rocks with them.

Of course, that much magic poured into one thing -should- be very effective. And an arcane archer with arrows of +2 Icy Burst Red DRagon Slaying would be firing much faster and since Dragon AC can hit 30 and higher, true strike gives a much better chance but only in addition to other bonuses. Dragons are not fools, they don't need to make it easy.

Or just use gunpowder to seal the dragon in its lair. Two mages, A cleric, A ranger, A rogue and two tons of powder.

A couple of mages with delayed fireball or some other suitable spells and a mining team could give the same effect. Very practical. And I doubt sealing the dragon up would kill it or even trap it forever. But then, I do tend to view creatures that live for a such a long time as cautious and devious, with a number of backup plans.

That sort of thing. Gunpowder, even in a high magic world, would bring power the common man. [/B]

To a degree. To far less a degree than in a low magic or no magic world.

 

[ascendance]

I've done some thinking about this sort of campaign. For adventurers, air rifles could be much more useful than firearms. Such weapons could have a high rate of fire, and there is a lot of potential for magically charging the air cannisters. For example, you could do it with a low-level spell, or with a small air elemental.

Powder would be very vulnerable to fireballs. Even if people save vs. the fireball, they would take an unpleasant amount of damage from their powderhorns and cartridges.

 

[Sulimo]

Guns are a sore spot with most D&D games. Here is something to consider.

1) Guns didn't eliminate armor instantaniously. For some reason, many people assume that the velosity of bullets has been a constant through out the years, which isn't the case.

2) Shield are generally useless against bullets, but concevably it could be expected that a magical shield, with the right enchantments might work.

Of course it depends on on how technology and magic meshes. You could have a situation where magic is used to augment firearms.

Societies like the Red Wizards are not likely to let gun powder into it's armies use for the simple fact that control over the masses that would have it might shift. But they would develop stratagies to work around it.

I dont think so (at least not in the medium term). Just look at Japan with the Samurai and how their culture reacted to firearms.

 

[herald]

I would hardly compare early Japan to the Red Wizards. Atleast the peoples od Japan had a idea of honor and service. The Red Wizards don't hold any idea of Honor (IMO) and hold ruthlessness in very high reguard.

 

[novyet]

I use firearms in my campaign pretty extensively, the tech level is roughly mid 1880's for firearms technology. I did not use the same rules as the dmg for them, so in fact firearms are actually pretty similar in damage to a bow or crossbow. It works out extremely well for me and my players so we're sticking with it. And yes we do use magic to augment technology.

 

[Henry]

Gunpowder would be quite nasty when enhanced by the damage you can do after magic has removed so many of the protections.

Of course, these thoughts apply in any world where magic of 6th level or lower is relatively common. It's probably why you don't see many fortresses in the Forgotten Realms.

Imagine the following scenarios:

An invisible mage sneaks up to the castle walls and casts rock to mud on the castle wall. the cannon can shoot through the hole created in the walls, especially if created at low-level, smashing right through buildings.

An ethereal mage walks through the castle walls and deposits a sack of grenades with a slow-burning fuse into, say, the nearest barracks at night.

How about Brilliant Energy Cannonballs?

 

[Frostmarrow]

OK, your average Sniper Rifle does 1d12 damage. A 5th level fighter with a +2 Con modifier has an average of 42 hit points.

So that means it takes an average of four shots to drop him, which is pathetic. These are high caliber, high precision weapons capable of shooting through inch thick steel plates.

D&D still relies on an abstract combat system, where "armor class" represents dodging and stuff. Doesn't work well with modern weapons.

Frankly I don't see why this argument keeps popping up. I mean what's the difference between hot lead and shafts of wood. Boromir is a hero for he took three arrows through his torso before dropping yet such stamina is commonplace in D&D.

I mean we all heard of the barbarian who threw himself off of a 500' cliff and survived, only to be fully healed rounds later by killing a bunch of stne giants wearing a ring of vamp regen. We buy that arrows and daggers don't kill but somehow it's impossible to imagine surviving a few bullets? Even though Rambo or John MacClaine have shown us how to do it.

 

[herald]

Personally, a sniper rifle will only do as much damage as someone with enough training will allow. If you haven't got steady aim, you are not going to put the bullet through the vitals like you should. You might still kill the opponent, but you might not.

In a D20 system, it would make more sense it a feat allowed you to do more damage with a sniper rifle as per surprise attack in D&D. As you got more snipper feats the more damage you did.