High Int but low Education: How do you play?
- Thread starter Emirikol
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1) "X? No, I've never heard of X... What is it?"... "Oh, then it's a lot like Q. Well, you could reroute the exhaust from the manifold, after reversing the polarity, and it'd work as well as new!"
2) "Yeah, I understand the aft bay doors on these old XjA-1As tend to stick, a lot... I understand you can roll'em, and they unstick... No, I don't know why... never thought to ask..."
In the first case, the PC can figure things out, once he knows what he's dealing with, but has problems relating new stuff to what he knows, because he's so inexperienced... Think of a Genious who has spent his entire life as a sheepherd in the desert... If it doesn't relate to desert sheep herding, he has trouble relating to it, despite his intelligence! Once he understands the problem, he can work with it.
In the second case, the PC has a very broad, but relatively shallow knowledge. He knows a little about a lot, but a lot about little... Give him basic facts about everything, but when someone asks how or why, he's unlikely to know.
(PS: Hey, Chaotic one! Long time, no see!)
2) "Yeah, I understand the aft bay doors on these old XjA-1As tend to stick, a lot... I understand you can roll'em, and they unstick... No, I don't know why... never thought to ask..."
In the first case, the PC can figure things out, once he knows what he's dealing with, but has problems relating new stuff to what he knows, because he's so inexperienced... Think of a Genious who has spent his entire life as a sheepherd in the desert... If it doesn't relate to desert sheep herding, he has trouble relating to it, despite his intelligence! Once he understands the problem, he can work with it.
In the second case, the PC has a very broad, but relatively shallow knowledge. He knows a little about a lot, but a lot about little... Give him basic facts about everything, but when someone asks how or why, he's unlikely to know.
(PS: Hey, Chaotic one! Long time, no see!)
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Altalazar
First Post
Unless you are doing scholarly research or are dealing a lot with those who are highly educated, I think in D&D there is probably little difference between the two. When you are crawling around in a dungeon, unless there is something very specific you need to know, raw intelligence will be the primary thing that matters. Education is never all inclusive, anyway.
Also, someone could be streetwise, but not know books, and vice-versa.
But most of the time, I don't see there being much difference between educated and not - it has seldom come up as mattering in almost all of the games I've played in.
Also, someone could be streetwise, but not know books, and vice-versa.
But most of the time, I don't see there being much difference between educated and not - it has seldom come up as mattering in almost all of the games I've played in.
Mac Callum
First Post
Emirikol said:
My grandfather's handyman grew up in rural Canada and never got passed 4th grade. He can hardly write more than it takes to sign his name and his wife keeps the books for his business. He also rigged together a sawmill from a broken circular saw and a motorcycle engine, chopped down and milled lumber, and built his house from the ground up - including putting together a hot water heater from spare parts he found at the junk yard.
A PC such as this doesn't know much 'book learning' - don't ask him what the mating cycle of the Lizard folk are, he doesn't know. But put him in a room with a broken relic and he'll have it back together and working again in no time, having rederived its function from basic principles and "common" sense.
Emirikol said:
PC1: Does anyone know what that battle standard is?
PC2: (Makes Knowledge check) It's the Hobgoblin clan of the Kir'gin. The little gold streamer beneath it means the Chief is in residence.
PC1: What do you think the best tactics are for getting the captives out then?
PC2: Dunno'.
A PC such as this knows a lot - you can ask him questions - but he can't apply the knowledge for anything. He DOES know the mating cycle of the Lizard folk, but he couldn't get the broken relic back together to save his life.
Academic v. Handyman
Of course, the best is to be both, a.k.a. the MacGuyver.
Emirikol said:
Hope it was helpful.
CombatWombat51
First Post
High Int and low education: Prolly a lot like me IRL (Watch it in action as I try to explain myself!)
Basically, I don't know much stuff compared to people that went to college, or even took advanced classes (or finished) high school. Put another way, I don't know many facts. However, I have a great ability to make sense of things. I can figure things out well, I learn quickly when things are explained, and I can draw parallels between things I do know and things I don't know, so that the unknown becomes known.
Put another way, I have excellent problem solving skills, but a small knowledge base. Ya know, book learning vs. logic.
Such a character could have his lack of education represented by not having any Knowledge skills, or at least only Knowledge skills that would come into play in his ordinary life. Unless he's a plane-hopping wizard, Knowledge (Planar) or speaking Infernal doesn't make sense. His knowledge of facts and details are limited, but his ability to use logic is great (and represented by his high Int).
The opposite, a character with a thorough education but limited intellect would simply have a low Int and extensive Knowledge skills.
A less crunchy way to do it, would be to make the character as normal (high Int and ample Knowledge skills), and simply RP it as the character figuring out facts as opposed to remembering them.
"I don't what this yellow powder is, but since I use it when I cast fireball, I'm guessing it has something to do with being flamable or combustable." Thus the character is just as effective as his educated companions, just RPed a little differently.
(I even had to ask my girlfriend if sulfur is white or yellow)
(Watch it in action as I try to explain myself!)Basically, I don't know much stuff compared to people that went to college, or even took advanced classes (or finished) high school. Put another way, I don't know many facts. However, I have a great ability to make sense of things. I can figure things out well, I learn quickly when things are explained, and I can draw parallels between things I do know and things I don't know, so that the unknown becomes known.
Put another way, I have excellent problem solving skills, but a small knowledge base. Ya know, book learning vs. logic.
Such a character could have his lack of education represented by not having any Knowledge skills, or at least only Knowledge skills that would come into play in his ordinary life. Unless he's a plane-hopping wizard, Knowledge (Planar) or speaking Infernal doesn't make sense. His knowledge of facts and details are limited, but his ability to use logic is great (and represented by his high Int).
The opposite, a character with a thorough education but limited intellect would simply have a low Int and extensive Knowledge skills.
A less crunchy way to do it, would be to make the character as normal (high Int and ample Knowledge skills), and simply RP it as the character figuring out facts as opposed to remembering them.
"I don't what this yellow powder is, but since I use it when I cast fireball, I'm guessing it has something to do with being flamable or combustable." Thus the character is just as effective as his educated companions, just RPed a little differently.
(I even had to ask my girlfriend if sulfur is white or yellow
)
Bendris Noulg
First Post
My father never got past 9th grade, but his personal reading library puts mine to shame. He routinely reads encyclopedias, National Geographic, and is as addicted to the History Channel as I am. This is called "Independant Scholarship". He was also a truck driver; If I told him I was going to such-and-such address in whatever town, USA, 9 times out of 10 he could get me within 10 blocks of the destination.Emirikol said:
Another example is my mom, literally grew up in the woods (my grandfather built the house himself about 10 miles from O'Hare International Airport... Except it was only a single strip of dirt at the time and he had to chop down a mile-long strip of trees to make a "road" to the house) and existed on a High School diploma for nearly a decade. She finally got tired of "drone work" and went back to school to become an LPN. Of course, she's still frustrated, so I'd say she should have gone to med school... Certainly would have kept her out of my hair.
Then there's my uncle... Well, not really my uncle, only that his farm (now a State Landmark in Wood Dale, Illinois) was the only other farm within 3 miles of my mom's home, so his family is kinda attached to our family... At any rate, never got passed high school, and isn't much of a reader (literate, yes, but not well read). However, if you got a car problem... any car problem... You take it to him. Diesel truck broke down? Take it to him. Rewire the entire friggin' house? Call my uncle.
And, of course, my Grandfather... I doubt he got past 8th Grade (though I might be wrong), but he was one of the best Operator-Engineers ever to work excavation in the Chicago region. Built his own house, constantly called Architects to let them know that they screwed up the foundation of a building or a field survey, had every major US battle from WWI to Viet Nam memorized to heart (at least, as memorized as disclosed public documents would allow), and could recite German history (as well as our related family lineage) back to the 1300s (and was well versed in the mythology of the preceeding eras). He also had acommidations from the US Army (circa WWII) for things like "original thinking", "improving performance" and "updating standards and maintaining high efficiency ratings" (on top of his Purple Heart).
Given these real-life examples, I would say that High Intelligence/Low Education would be a misnomer. Rather, it's a lack of "formal" education. Such characters would be most knowledgable in those things that have actually had importance in their life while also having knowledge in those subjects that they pursued as a matter of personal interest rather than "graduation requirements". An alternate would be someone who's extra Skills are put mostly into life-necessities but is frustrated by their past inability to achieve some degree of mental/scholarly achievement.
Like my brother... Went to school full time for five years to get a three-year degree. Struggled for a year to get his Real Estate license, but never paid for the license and thus didn't get it. Went to Dealer School and found out that running a Blackjack Table really was work so never did anything with his certification. Purchases a $600 you-can-make-a-fortune-in-computers software education package and then never removes the shrink wrap.
Hmmm... Okay, maybe his Wisdom's a tad low, too. Closest representation I can think of, though.
Oh, no, wait... The girl's brother in The Mummy (alchohaulism optional). Lots of information in his head but little ability to actually recall it without being reminded about it by his sister, book, or wall enscription. Such a character would probably be prone to saying something akin to "I just remembered that..." about 30 seconds after it would have been ideal to know it.
Then again, he might just be a star athlete that got preferential treatment from his University of Choice and doesn't know much beyond throwing a ball and downing a beer-bong.
I think, in D&D, a high Intelligence stat but poor education is simulated by having a HIgh Intelligence, but taking no knowledge skills that you'd think would come from "book learning". The character is still smart, thinks well on his feet, and so on, but has little formal knowledge.
To role-play this character, you have to keep meta-game knowledge severely in check. Play him as intelligent as possible given his limited information.
Low Int, Good education is represented by the opposite - a low int, but as much as possible put into "book learning" skills. The character then becomes capable in the few things he has learned, but is not very adept outside those topics. He's still slow of wit in general.
To role-play this, you simply go for slow of wit. When his education comes in handy, it'll show up in his knowledge skill checks.
To role-play this character, you have to keep meta-game knowledge severely in check. Play him as intelligent as possible given his limited information.
Low Int, Good education is represented by the opposite - a low int, but as much as possible put into "book learning" skills. The character then becomes capable in the few things he has learned, but is not very adept outside those topics. He's still slow of wit in general.
To role-play this, you simply go for slow of wit. When his education comes in handy, it'll show up in his knowledge skill checks.
Ssyleia
First Post
IMHO INT has nothing to do with education. A character with very high INT and few education might discover solutions to a problem by intuitive deduction while a character with high INT and a scholarly background would derive from his wealth of education to solve the same problem. In the game it does not really matter how the character came to be intelligent.
On a role-playing note I would have the educated character quote a lot while I would have the uneducated character say more like "I just thought about this: how about..."
On a role-playing note I would have the educated character quote a lot while I would have the uneducated character say more like "I just thought about this: how about..."
LightPhoenix
First Post
The example I thought of is thus:
Mendel went and figured out the basics of genetics - High Int, low education on the topic at hand. I on the other hand know a lot about it, as Biochemistry was my major - high education, not necessarily high Int.
Or to sum up - I might know more about genetics than Mendel, but could I go and figure it out if I didn't? Probably not. That's the difference. Intelligence really doesn't represent knowledge - it represents intuition, reasoning, and a latent ability to learn and understand things.
[EDIT]
Second, better example:
No one knew the earth was round, but Aristotle reasoned it out - high Int, low education on the topic. Everyone now knows the earth is round, but how many people could prove it? High education, but low to average Int.
Mendel went and figured out the basics of genetics - High Int, low education on the topic at hand. I on the other hand know a lot about it, as Biochemistry was my major - high education, not necessarily high Int.
Or to sum up - I might know more about genetics than Mendel, but could I go and figure it out if I didn't? Probably not. That's the difference. Intelligence really doesn't represent knowledge - it represents intuition, reasoning, and a latent ability to learn and understand things.
[EDIT]
Second, better example:
No one knew the earth was round, but Aristotle reasoned it out - high Int, low education on the topic. Everyone now knows the earth is round, but how many people could prove it? High education, but low to average Int.
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