Aust Diamondew
First Post
I hate mirror image as a DM such a pain in the butt. I almost always encourage my players to take blur or displacement instead.
High level 3.5 - tricks for keeping the numbers game quick and easy?
- Thread starter Enkhidu
- Start date
WizarDru
Adventurer
My group (as chronicled in our story hour) is 24th to 25th level with 6 characters, 3 cohorts, 1 mount, 3 familiars and 2 animal companions. I feel your pain.
First and foremost: Rodrigo tells it true. Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. As he clarified, that's not 'ignore the rule', it's 'don't get bent out of shape if you forgot that Bless was running during the last round'.
At high levels, you can have literally dozens of spell effects in play at one time, plus magic items, plus class special abilities and effects from situations, locations and monsters, too. It can be a mess, if you let it.
Trick 1: Player-specific Math. Let the players sweat their own numbers. You're already responsible for all the NPCs and monsters. You don't need to factor in their specifics, too. Advise them of certain details, and let them sort out the math.
Trick 2: Notecards. Have an item or spell that will modify more than yourself? Write it on a 3x5 card, with a summary of the bonuses, and put it on the table. Train everyone to check them during combat. "Oh, cool, you've got Holy Aura going, and I'm 10 feet from you."
Trick 3: Pre-compute the hard numbers. Have players roll their attacks and damage ahead of time, if they know that they'll be attacking, and have them compute all the numbers so that when you get to them, results should be quick. If players aren't prepared to do that much, at least have them know exactly what they're bonuses/modifiers will be when the rolls come. All Spellcasters, as a rule, should know the DC of the spell they are casting BEFORE you ask them what spell they're going to cast.
Trick 4: Quick Adjudication. When a rules dispute comes up, set a time limit (we usually use 5 minutes, tops) on making a ruling. Assign players the task of finding relevant passages to argue their case. Hear quick evidence, decide what you think is correct and make the call. If it's a matter of player life-and-death, you may opt to let them take some more time...but don't let the game be derailed in a rules discussion. Don't harp on the numbers.
Trick 5: Check before Worrying. Sometimes a player will not be entirely sure of all the numbers when his turn comes. You, as DM, probably have a better idea of his chances, whether it be to hit, make a save or contest a skill. If the halfling wizard wants to grapple a 20th level Ogre fighter, have him roll FIRST, and see if it's even worth debating the specific. If he rolls a 20 and the ogre rolls a 1, do the math. If the Ogre rolls a 19, and it's obvious that the wizard doesn't stand a chance of winning, stop there and move on to the next action.
Trick 6: Stay Stock. Monster stat-blocks getting you down? Use more standardized beasties, and settle for simple advancement, core classes or just double their hit dice. Do what Piratecat has often done: taken a standard monster and change it's appearance or description, swap a power here or there, and then send it against the party. A white slaad might be familiar, but change it to a mercury-like liquid shape and give it some extra hp, and players may never know the difference. Less number work for you, more fun for them.
Trick 7: Fudge it. Sometimes you just need to stop worrying about being 100% rules-correct every time. Approximate if it isn't going to be subject to intense scrutiny. Take a purple worm, double his hit points, increase his BAB by 12 points and let fly. The players will neither know or guess if you remembered to give him four extra feats and the right amount of skill points.
You get the idea.
Our group sometimes has multiple PCs around the table, but mostly just for quick SRD lookup, in my case. Some of my players have devised excel spreadsheets to compute their attack scores for any situation: the archer can tell you, in seconds, what her attack numbers will be at 1000 feet when doing a manyshot with adamantine fire arrows into melee in a windstorm. Others just check their sheets.
First and foremost: Rodrigo tells it true. Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. As he clarified, that's not 'ignore the rule', it's 'don't get bent out of shape if you forgot that Bless was running during the last round'.
At high levels, you can have literally dozens of spell effects in play at one time, plus magic items, plus class special abilities and effects from situations, locations and monsters, too. It can be a mess, if you let it.
Trick 1: Player-specific Math. Let the players sweat their own numbers. You're already responsible for all the NPCs and monsters. You don't need to factor in their specifics, too. Advise them of certain details, and let them sort out the math.
Trick 2: Notecards. Have an item or spell that will modify more than yourself? Write it on a 3x5 card, with a summary of the bonuses, and put it on the table. Train everyone to check them during combat. "Oh, cool, you've got Holy Aura going, and I'm 10 feet from you."
Trick 3: Pre-compute the hard numbers. Have players roll their attacks and damage ahead of time, if they know that they'll be attacking, and have them compute all the numbers so that when you get to them, results should be quick. If players aren't prepared to do that much, at least have them know exactly what they're bonuses/modifiers will be when the rolls come. All Spellcasters, as a rule, should know the DC of the spell they are casting BEFORE you ask them what spell they're going to cast.
Trick 4: Quick Adjudication. When a rules dispute comes up, set a time limit (we usually use 5 minutes, tops) on making a ruling. Assign players the task of finding relevant passages to argue their case. Hear quick evidence, decide what you think is correct and make the call. If it's a matter of player life-and-death, you may opt to let them take some more time...but don't let the game be derailed in a rules discussion. Don't harp on the numbers.
Trick 5: Check before Worrying. Sometimes a player will not be entirely sure of all the numbers when his turn comes. You, as DM, probably have a better idea of his chances, whether it be to hit, make a save or contest a skill. If the halfling wizard wants to grapple a 20th level Ogre fighter, have him roll FIRST, and see if it's even worth debating the specific. If he rolls a 20 and the ogre rolls a 1, do the math. If the Ogre rolls a 19, and it's obvious that the wizard doesn't stand a chance of winning, stop there and move on to the next action.
Trick 6: Stay Stock. Monster stat-blocks getting you down? Use more standardized beasties, and settle for simple advancement, core classes or just double their hit dice. Do what Piratecat has often done: taken a standard monster and change it's appearance or description, swap a power here or there, and then send it against the party. A white slaad might be familiar, but change it to a mercury-like liquid shape and give it some extra hp, and players may never know the difference. Less number work for you, more fun for them.
Trick 7: Fudge it. Sometimes you just need to stop worrying about being 100% rules-correct every time. Approximate if it isn't going to be subject to intense scrutiny. Take a purple worm, double his hit points, increase his BAB by 12 points and let fly. The players will neither know or guess if you remembered to give him four extra feats and the right amount of skill points.
You get the idea.
Our group sometimes has multiple PCs around the table, but mostly just for quick SRD lookup, in my case. Some of my players have devised excel spreadsheets to compute their attack scores for any situation: the archer can tell you, in seconds, what her attack numbers will be at 1000 feet when doing a manyshot with adamantine fire arrows into melee in a windstorm. Others just check their sheets.
Particle_Man
Explorer
I use toughness for all feats (except those listed in the MM) for all npcs and advanced monsters to save time.
Jdvn1
Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
I'm also in the "write it all down beforehand" camp.
Make charts of commonly used abilities.
Write down stat changes for commonly used spells.
Write down what types of bonuses you have and what they are. Make sure they stack/don't stack beforehand.
It's all about prep time.
Make charts of commonly used abilities.
Write down stat changes for commonly used spells.
Write down what types of bonuses you have and what they are. Make sure they stack/don't stack beforehand.
It's all about prep time.
moritheil
First Post
Enkhidu said:
Your group is EL 15, unless you have a substantial number of cohorts and followers.
As the DM, I would have the bad guy run away, then come back later to attack, when most of the group's non-long-term spells had expired. It cuts down on the number crunching AND is realistic strategy. Unless, of course, everyone actually enjoys number crunching.
ashockney said:
I remember seeing that spreadsheet, and being a bit in awe over it. I seem to remember it being multi-functional, and very "plug and play" with the numbers (as in enter the PC/NPC, slap in the bonuses, watch them go). Am I remembering rightly?
Oh, and for morithiel, our group has enough non-core (and in fact, wholly homebrewed) abilities and items that the DM kicks up the group's EL a notch or two for figuring out challenges (a good example is that the Command abilities my PC has include among their choices things like granting flank if two allies threaten the same creature - when we can bring that to bear, our two weapon fighting, weapon finesse rogue and our power attacking fighter mop the floor with things). In addition, good planning on our part made it impossible for the baddies to get away (that's what happens when you get some semi-friendlies to physically bar the exits, cut off the battlefield, and have the good fortune to have the only NPC capable of fleeing via magic fail a save so miserably when hit with destruction in round one.
Belen
Legend
Personally, I just will not run anything above 12th, unless it is a one shot. The game becomes too unwieldy. I detest all the darn situation mods that exist in the game as is. Spells that just add more bonus' rather than being interesting in effect just stink.
I have run games all the way to 30th and it is just not worth my time as a GM to run anything above 12th these days.
I have run games all the way to 30th and it is just not worth my time as a GM to run anything above 12th these days.
Gentlegamer
Adventurer
All of this is making me very uneasy about restarting my campaign under 3e rules . . .BelenUmeria said:
WizarDru
Adventurer
Gentlegamer said:
What level are you restarting at? I wouldn't convert a high-level game to 3.x if you're new to the system. I can tell you that we recently have been playing Lost City of Barakus, and find it moves much, much quicker than the game did when we were new to 3e. Last saturday, we had five successive and challenging combats with our party of 6 3rd/4th level characters.
