High level 3e magic item purchasing... when does enough become too much?

[Kugar]

[uncle]One more thing ...[/uncle]

At one point I set my PCs as land owners of a finacially troubled barony, and one of the options they had was to make magic and sell it. Never ever crossed their mind, not even when a potion vendor came by and remarked on how well he was making out. I think a really heavy dealer would demand more than his fair pound of flesh for his goods and probalbly wouldn't be to nice a guy.
OTOH, finding out why a wizard would be hawking all of his goods might be a good hook.
When worse comes to worse though, picking up some gear and looting some old dead guys tomb was good enough for us old timers it should be good enough for these whipper-snappers.
(Actually I am surprised how much free market activity is implied in a quasi-feudal setting)

Kugar

 

[reapersaurus]

In general they're not shopping for extremely powerful items; more for a variety of medium power devices targetted to make up for their weaknesses or boost their strengths.

Fascinating situation.
(I'd be insulted by the troll comment if i were you PC.
I didn't think you ever start trolls, do you? You may harbor them, but .. eh. I'll stop)

It's a valid question, Atticus.

One question, Piratecat:
Are you more concerned about the impact that this increase in power will do, or are you more concerned with the concept that their spells have taken some of the control of magic item dispersement away from you?

If the latter, than how are you stopping them from creating 'overpowered' magic items now that they have the feats?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That being said, the cost for items in the DMG is what the wizard needs to make the stuff. It does not include profit. Throw on another 20% minimum. Also, restrict the exotic combinations. +3 returning shuriken of fire are a bad idea, for example.

Incidentally, you could offer them with two such stores. One has items they sorta-kinda want and another store has exactly what they want. The thing is, the owner of store B needs a few favors done ...

Biggus Geekus' Rule #17: When in doubt, make a quest out of it.

The rules already take that into account. The cost of making an item is usually half the nominal selling price.

High-powered items will rarely be in "stores" although you might make some random rolls to see what unusual items happen to be available. Indeed high level wizards and cleric may prefer something other than cash for their "profit".

 

[KingThorvar]

I do not allow the heroes to purchase magical items. I prefer very magic-poor worlds. This allows the players to roleplay more instead of relying on their might and magic (aka: crutches).

I created a Ravenloft domain (see my webpage: http://members.aol.com/kngthorvar) that is extremely magic poor. Casting arcane spells is illegal and considered evil. Heroes will have other ways of dealing with creatures that are immune to mundane weapons (such as silver weapons etc.).

 

[rounser]

Also, in barter, a bunch of lesser items don't equal a greater one. In the example, 75 Scryb sprites, which everyone probably has a bunch of, probably aren't worth a rare Shivan dragon. Because of the way things stack, a whole bunch of little items aren't worth one big one. Would you rather have 25 +1 rings or one +5 ring?

Exactly. The same goes for gold, though - not everyone is a high level spellcaster, nor do they necessarily have a friend who fits this description and is willing to suffer through the XP penalty for creating a widget for gold alone. For these folks, gold could be considered the "Scryb sprites", and not worth that staff due to reasons of comparative usefulness to them.

I doubt Larloch is interested in money, for instance. In fact, I'd suspect that the most prolific creators of high-powered items are in fact liches with centuries on their hands and nothing else but magic research to keep them occupied.

Once again, it's reasonable to assume that many of the folks with such items are loaded with money they want to dispose of for better items, just as the PCs are. NPC adventurers probably fit this bill to a tee.

 

[Chimera]

"I hear that you've got a Doohickey+5. Care to sell it?" Says the PC.

"Oh?" Says the NPC, raising his eyebrow. He leans forward over the table, cocks his head and says menacingly "Just how did you come to hear that " as he reaches under the table for his Cosmic Deathbringer+8...

As stated above, people at this level don't take kindly to being scried or magically examined.

I like the barter system too, combined with special requirements. In order to get Item A from Wizard A, you need to get him Item B from Wizard B. Only Wizard B won't deal with you unless you provide Item C which can only be obtained on the third full moon on St. Swithins Day (but only in years it falls on a tuesday), hand-picked by Virgin Kobold Bards in the Dragon Bogs of the far-off land of Obscuria.

 

[Kugar]

Edit:
About barter vesus payment in coin:

As a player, I usually prefer coin to most items. Sure, if the item is really useful, I'll take it, but coin gives you freedom to create your own items. Someone looking to create a special weapon, or a would be lich seeking the money to build his phylactery.

Also, in barter, a bunch of lesser items don't equal a greater one. In the example, 75 Scryb sprites, which everyone probably has a bunch of, probably aren't worth a rare Shivan dragon. Because of the way things stack, a whole bunch of little items aren't worth one big one. Would you rather have 25 +1 rings or one +5 ring? [/B]

Actually two things stand out in this edit. First - isn't great to boil down lichdom to one feat, some spells, a bunch of gold and a couple of days of work? This kind of material is in the DMG and MM to keep players from thinking this way and wrecking part of the feel.

Second - 25 +1 Rings reminds me about this story that teaches us of the dangers of accepting magic that comes from a shady source. Giving these sources money could be funding the Dockside Royals.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Good point Kugar. At that level of item power, barter is probably the rule. Would the PCs accept thousands of gp for their favourite items? Nope - but they'd be interested in swapping for items more useful to them. NPCs are probably the same.

Since the majority of acquired wealth at high levels will be in the form of magic items, this is already taken into account by making the default selling price half the value of the item. 50% is quite a hefty tax for liquidity.

While your suggestion makes sense, it really doesn't matter. The PCs will just trade in their magic items instead of cashing them first, and they will expect "credit" for the "real value" of the item instead of 50% of the value of an item converted to cash already.

I do not think your player will be pleased when you tell him that to acquire a +2 Sonic Burst weapon he has to trade in a +2 Bane Weapon and a +2 Flaming Burst weapon. But if you accept the book values for cashing in, that is what he will be doing anyway, no questions asked because cash is cash.

 

[coyote6]

An interesting problem.

Me, I'd ask what the PCs want to buy in advance, so I could determine whether such items are in stock or not. Sigil being the place to go to buy stuff doesn't necessarily imply that any-and-every-thing they want is in stock.*

And I'd tell the players if something made me queasy ("No, I don't think I'd be comfortable with you buying that staff of power; perhaps something different?"). I'd also try to offer some tempting alternatives -- things specifically aimed at the characters (e.g., a magic something adorned with the symbol of one of the religious-types' gods, thus giving them the option of acquiring some long-lost item of the faith, or getting that gizmo they wanted).

IMC, so far, I've been considering that expendable magic items -- scrolls, potions, wands, etc. -- are fairly easy to find & buy. Someone can craft such things and expect that someone will be along to buy it, sooner or later. Some simple items -- everburning torches, possibly basic items like +1 weapons or armor -- are also fairly easy to get. Other items, OTOH, are usually originally crafted on commission, for someone specific. So finding one for sale means that (a) someone reneged on a commission for some reason, or (b) the item was sold for some reason.

And there just aren't that many people that buy magic items -- who has got that much cash lying around that they're willing to tie up in some item they probably can't use (if they can use it, they could've commissioned it already, and probably won't be reselling it anyways) and won't be able to resell for some unknown period of time (e.g., until wealthy adventurers wander by that want that item). Thus, finding the item that you want might not be that easy, and getting rid of the unwanted items you have might also be tricky (for me, the "half-market price as resell value" is normally the maxiumum you're likely to get.)

So far, nobles, temples & the like have "bought" unwanted items off of the PCs, as a form of reward ("Thanks for keeping that mind flayer from eating my brain. I'd be more than happy to take that enchanted** flail off your hands, have some gems."). And, actually, only in the last adventure did anyone give cash for items; previously, they just traded items ("Sure, we'll take that waraxe no one wants; thanks. Here, have this battleaxe, as thanks for your service & generosity").

I've asked the players what kind of items they want for their characters, and tried to provide them as gifts, when appropriate ("Thank you for your valiant service. Please accept this mithral shirt." "Gosh, just what I wanted!").

OTOH, my group seems to love making new characters, so no one set have reached past mid-level yet, so this may not work forever, or for long.

*Evil GM Thought: "Yeah, we had a bunch of those, but what with the marching Modron problem, they all got bought up & used. Shame."

**Non-SKR approved usage.

 

[rounser]

A random idea:

Suppose that throughout a campaign the party keeps on discovering magic items with a particular sigil on them.

They could investigate the sigil and find out who's behind it, and pay them a visit. Or, the creator or owner behind the sigil could teleport in one day and forcibly attempt to retrieve their rightful property.

The Red Wizards are obvious candidates for this in FR - in fact, the FRCS design team is way ahead of me on this one. As is whoever thought up the Githyanki. Nothing new under the sun, it seems.