D&D 5E (2024) High Level 5.5E: Building Encounter Chains

[Reynard]

UPDATE: It is time for the climactic battle against the BBEG! The PCs are 17th level and are going to have to assault the Usurper's palace and deal with all of his collected defenses. They have allies (including a ancient red wyrm) but are going to have go through a whole gauntlet of death!

I want this last adventure to be a string of encounters -- basically, a whole adventuring day's worth of encounters, one after another, until the final battle with the evil archemage. I expect we will spend something like four 3-hour sessions with this.

Give me some ideas for cool encounters for 17th level characters to soften them up on the way to the BBEG.

 

[Zardnaar]

Dead magic zones with low encounters.

Mooks at these levels probably CR5s. Half dragons have 8d6 breath weapon AoE.

Sickening radiance areas with things immune to exhaustion.

 

[Reynard]

The end game is upon us. The PCs have attacked the Usurper in the Capitol, using their orc, pirate, eladrin and dragon allies to occupy the usurpers armies and summoned allies so they can assault the palace. The palace has been warded against scrying and teleport and extra-planar incursion (including ethereal) and its physical structure has been magically reinforced to be as strong as Wall of Force. The PCs are going to have to find a way to open the door and walk in.

But first they had to fight off the guardians of the grounds. In addition to the dozen warriors riding griffons, all zealots loyal to the Usurper, they were faced with an old enemy they had defeated: a dragon they had slain had been raised as a Dracolich by the Usurper to take revenge.

The fight lasted 1.5 rounds. Ooof.

That's okay. the whole point is to force the PCs to churn through encounters on the way to the Boss Fight. But man, 17th level 5E 2024 PCs are monsters.

 

[Zardnaar]

The end game is upon us. The PCs have attacked the Usurper in the Capitol, using their orc, pirate, eladrin and dragon allies to occupy the usurpers armies and summoned allies so they can assault the palace. The palace has been warded against scrying and teleport and extra-planar incursion (including ethereal) and its physical structure has been magically reinforced to be as strong as Wall of Force. The PCs are going to have to find a way to open the door and walk in.

But first they had to fight off the guardians of the grounds. In addition to the dozen warriors riding griffons, all zealots loyal to the Usurper, they were faced with an old enemy they had defeated: a dragon they had slain had been raised as a Dracolich by the Usurper to take revenge.

The fight lasted 1.5 rounds. Ooof.

That's okay. the whole point is to force the PCs to churn through encounters on the way to the Boss Fight. But man, 17th level 5E 2024 PCs are monsters.

This is why high level is mostly a waste of time.

You've already won unless DM takes away your toys.

 

[Mort]

This is why high level is mostly a waste of time.

You've already won unless DM takes away your toys.

High level encounters can be really fun, precisely BECAUSE of what you can throw at the party. And that means knowing the PCs have some serious toys, not taking them away. In my opinion, encounters that nerf high level stuff (no teleportation because of x, no summoning because of y, no magic because of z) on anything resembling a regular basis are both bad design and unfun.

That said, another way to handle high level encounters is to have the threat not be to the PCs. Sure the PCs are juggernauts, but there could be innocent bystanders. Or that PCs are tasked with recovering/transporting something fragile and but not easily hidden/guarded. Something external that the PCs have to worry about.

If high level play is coming across as a waste of time, you need to redefine/readjust the stakes.

 

[Zardnaar]

High level encounters can be really fun, precisely BECAUSE of what you can throw at the party. And that means knowing the PCs have some serious toys, not taking them away. In my opinion, encounters that nerf high level stuff (no teleportation because of x, no summoning because of y, no magic because of z) on anything resembling a regular basis are both bad design and unfun.

That said, another way to handle high level encounters is to have the threat not be to the PCs. Sure the PCs are juggernauts, but there could be innocent bystanders. Or that PCs are tasked with recovering/transporting something fragile and but not easily hidden/guarded. Something external that the PCs have to worry about.

If high level play is coming across as a waste of time, you need to redefine/readjust the stakes.

Its still mostly same crap. Ancient dragon vs adult.

Archfiend vs balor.

More damage and hp vs less.

Reynard said combat lasted 1.5 rounds. My big bad lasted 2 rounds.

 

[Mort]

Its still mostly same crap. Ancient dragon vs adult.

Archfiend vs balor.

More damage and hp vs less.

Reynard said combat lasted 1.5 rounds. My big bad lasted 2 rounds.

Then calibrate the encounters differently. Have a task that simply cannot be accomplished that fast. For example sealing a portal with a ritual that requires 7 seals, each one requiring a certain (different action) while high level traps and baddies menace the party (fun lair actions can really make an encounter). Could you do that at lower level, sure, but high level allows you to throw some fun nasty stuff.

And so what if some or even most of the fights/encounters are on the easy side. They should still be fun, and players really like when their high level characters actually feel high level. And the easy encounters make the truly difficult ones more memorable.

Plus, unlike lower levels, high level PCs actually have the tools to retreat. So you can throw much harder stuff knowing escape is usually an option (unlike lower levels where retreat is often difficult).

 

[Zardnaar]

Then calibrate the encounters differently. Have a task that simply cannot be accomplished that fast. For example sealing a portal with a ritual that requires 7 seals, each one requiring a certain (different action) while high level traps and baddies menace the party (fun lair actions can really make an encounter). Could you do that at lower level, sure, but high level allows you to throw some fun nasty stuff.

And so what if some or even most of the fights/encounters are on the easy side. They should still be fun, and players really like when their high level characters actually feel high level. And the easy encounters make the truly difficult ones more memorable.

Plus, unlike lower levels, high level PCs actually have the tools to retreat. So you can throw much harder stuff knowing escape is usually an option (unlike lower levels where retreat is often difficult).

Its more work on me as DM and just not that fun. I ran it over the RAW xp budget.

It was around double xp budget. CR 22 or 23 (old routes really CR20), DM special terrain plus mooks.

Mooks were CR 5 iirc.

As I said you either take away the toys or jump through hoops (translation more work less fun).

Had a player DM they tapped out at 10 and had been thinking of doing it since 7 or 8.

Or wrap it up and start again. By level 13 I had been wanting to end it since 11 maybe 10.

 

[Lord Twig]

The end game is upon us. The PCs have attacked the Usurper in the Capitol, using their orc, pirate, eladrin and dragon allies to occupy the usurpers armies and summoned allies so they can assault the palace. The palace has been warded against scrying and teleport and extra-planar incursion (including ethereal) and its physical structure has been magically reinforced to be as strong as Wall of Force. The PCs are going to have to find a way to open the door and walk in.

But first they had to fight off the guardians of the grounds. In addition to the dozen warriors riding griffons, all zealots loyal to the Usurper, they were faced with an old enemy they had defeated: a dragon they had slain had been raised as a Dracolich by the Usurper to take revenge.

The fight lasted 1.5 rounds. Ooof.

That's okay. the whole point is to force the PCs to churn through encounters on the way to the Boss Fight. But man, 17th level 5E 2024 PCs are monsters.

I would be really interested in what each character did on their turn to end a Dracolich and a dozen griffon riding warriors in 1.5 rounds. Honest question because my own players are getting up to that level and I want to be able to plan accordingly. The casters only have 1 each of their spells slots level 6 and higher. If they are using them, they aren't getting them back when they face the big bad. Which is what you want.

Or course you mentioned that they have an Ancient Red Dragon ally. That is a CR 24 creature that can take out the dracolich and warrirors/griffins on its own. Hopefully it is busy with other things so the players actually have something to do?

Also, if it is a traditional Chaotic Evil Ancient Red Dragon, then it should absolutely turn on the characters at the worst possible time. If there is a good reason that it doesn't turn on them, as the DM you can always come up with an even better reason why it does.

 

[Lord Twig]

Its more work on me as DM and just not that fun. I ran it over the RAW xp budget.

It was around double xp budget. CR 22 or 23 (old routes really CR20), DM special terrain plus mooks.

Moonks were CR 5 iirc.

As I said you either take away the toys or jump through hoops (translation more work less fun).

Had a player DM they tapped out at 10 and had been thinking of doing it since 7 or 8.

Or wrap it up and start again. By level 13 I had been wanting to end it since 11 maybe 10.

Are you perhaps burning out? It happens. Several time people have been saying "It's a slog," but that has never been a problem at my (virtual) table. The players want to fight their way through hoards of foes. I'm having fun putting together the encounters using the XP budget for more powerful creatures. Everytime the players face a more powerful enemy they have not faced before they are looking forward to how the combat is going to go.

That said, these are all experienced players, but for most of them it is the first time playing D&D 5e 2024, and even D&D 5e in general for some of them. After you have played 5 to 10 campaigns (or maybe even less than that), it might be time for a different game. Lots of good ones out there.