D&D 5E (2024) High Level 5.5E: Building Encounter Chains

[THEMNGMNT]

Welcome to the suck.

I ran a 122 session 5E 2014 campaign that ended with 20th level characters with 7 epic boons. It was a bit much.

At high levels, the game doesn't break. But the characters have so many resources that combat takes longer to arbitrate at the same time it takes more enemies than ever to create a challenge. It turns into a slog.

Here's my advice, in no particular order. Note that this works in 5E. I'm not sure how much the game has changed for 5.5E as I won't start my first campaign in that edition until later this year.

• Be ruthless. Play to win. You'll be surprised how resilient player characters are.
• Ignore difficulty level. Instead, take your entire XP budget for the adventuring day and use that to design a single encounter. Actually, you can take all of the XP needed to advance a level and use that to design a single encounter. Not even kidding.
• For that single encounter, have the enemies come in waves. Not because players need the break. It's because you don't want your players to nova all the bad guys in the first round.
• You should be able to confidently drop at least one character each round. For example, let's assume the Battle Master Fighter has 150hp. Are you fully confident that ancient dragon can hit the Battle Master consistently enough to do at least 150 hp in a single turn? If not, it needs to do more damage.
• Double or triple the amount of damage that every single monster does. That's it. That's the note.
• Come up with specific counters to your characters' powers. I had fights with three archmages who did nothing but counterspell. Actually, what they mostly did was counterspell the players' counterspells. This can feel like you're targeting your players, in truth it's the villains targeting their characters. The villains are feeling the heat at this point and are desperate to stay alive.
• Use minions to threaten innocents. That horde of 100 goblins isn't going to harm the players, but it can hurt the NPCs they care about.
• Terrain and environment to help the villains and hurt the players. This has been covered at length elsewhere but it can really make a difference when done right. Which isn't always easy.
• The danger goes up every round. In round one, the rising lava does 10 points of damage. In round two 20 points of damage. Etc. In round one, the goblin minions kill 1 villager. In round two, it's 2 villagers. In round three, 4 villagers. It round four, 8 villagers.

If you follow this advice, you will have epic and challenging battles that likely take up an entire session, or two, or three. In my experience, there's no way around that. Combat is slow at high level.

It also means that characters might gain a level with a single battle. Which means you might only have five or six fights left in your entire campaign. So what are they?

 

[Charlaquin]

As I asked before, how does limiting it to only Hard encounters affect that number, if at all?

Obviously, most people don't run high level games, so I am probably wishing in the wind here.

Sorry, hadn’t read the whole thread. I think sticking only to Hard encounters would work fine. I would guess in that case you’d find that 6 encounters is usually enough and you don’t really need those two extra flex encounters. That is just an educated guess though, I’ve never tried doing that myself.

 

[tetrasodium]

As I asked before, how does limiting it to only Hard encounters affect that number, if at all?

Obviously, most people don't run high level games, so I am probably wishing in the wind here.

If you search for terms like beyond lethal or loldeadly you will find all kinds of discussion where people just strait up blew past the encounter guidelines and found the PCs able to handle it no sweat.

Once you hit late tier2 or tier3+ "hard" encounters are anything but

Attrition won't start to matter for dozens of rounds and even then it won't really impact anything till people are checking their watches in boredom from having it go so long.

 

[Reynard]

If you search for terms like beyond lethal or loldeadly you will find all kinds of discussion where people just strait up blew past the encounter guidelines and found the PCs able to handle it no sweat.

Once you hit late tier2 or tier3+ "hard" encounters are anything but

Attrition won't start to matter for dozens of rounds and even then it won't really impact anything till people are checking their watches in boredom from having it go so long.

So given that, what would you suggest in order to give this player what they want -- a reason not to nova every fight?

 

[Tessarael]

One thing one of our DMs has done quite effectively is chain one encounter directly onto another. If you're having a fight in one room, within 2 or 3 rounds, the monsters in a nearby room will enter and join the fray, unless you've used Silence or similar methods to ensure they remain unaware. This works quite well, because it gives you a couple of encounters before you can short rest.

On the other hand, if the party is struggling with a particular encounter, which can happen due to bad luck, poor tactics, or a mismatch between the opponents and the PCs' capabilities, then don't throw the second encounter at them, or if necessary have the second encounter interpose to aid (if adversarial vs. the existing opponents), or capture them - rather than just killing them outright in a heated battle.

There is definitely a temptation for players to nova with their PCs, then rest up when resources are spent. This is smart tactically, but can be anticlimactic. It also depends on characters builds. For example, Fighters using Action Surge and spell casters using their highest level spell slots are much more of a nova than say a Monk, Rogue, or Warlock with steadier damage output. If nova builds are an issue in your campaign, you may want to encourage PCs to shift to a different build with better sustained damage but lower nova capability. A5E is better in this regard, as Fighters do not have Action Surge, and while there is some nova capability for different builds, it is generally a little more limited than 5E and 5.5E D&D.

 

[Zardnaar]

At level 12/23 my PCs coukd get through 10 encounters. 3 low/medium/high and a solo at X2.

Lower levels I find 3 high encounters tend to drain thrm a bit and the 4th is rough.

5 PCs lvl 15

Low
13300
Medium
21600
High
31200



DMG recommends you dont go above X2 party members.

Low encounters approx 10 CR4s high is something like 10 CR7s.

At other end CR16-19 plus friends.

AoEs are critsl so cultists (CR8-10), death Knights are nasty, rakshasa with disguises etc.

Mages, archmage have lots of AoE and counterspells.

 

[Zardnaar]

Do the 5.5 encounter budget rules actually work? Or should I continue to rely on the LevelUp ones?

Use the 5.5 ones for now. Figure it out first. See previous post.

1 encounter is easy mode doesn't matter how tough it is.

3 or 4 high encounters. If your PCs like going nova. Eg casting g a spell every round.

19 rncounters I had a cleric and dhort rest party.

Level 10 spellcasters blasting 3 high encounters more or less tanked them. 4 or 5 encounters will

10 encounters took 3 sessions to grind through. They used 3 short rests via. prayer of healing in combat

 

[Reynard]

At level 12/23 my PCs coukd get through 10 encounters. 3 low/medium/high and a solo at X2.

Lower levels I find 3 high encounters tend to drain thrm a bit and the 4th is rough.

5 PCs lvl 15

Low
13300
Medium
21600
High
31200



DMG recommends you dont go above X2 party members.

Low encounters approx 10 CR4s high is something like 10 CR7s.

At other end CR16-19 plus friends.

AoEs are critsl so cultists (CR8-10), death Knights are nasty, rakshasa with disguises etc.

Mages, archmage have lots of AoE and counterspells.

Thank you.

I am not sure there would be much point to low difficulty encounters, though. Wouldn't that just make it even more of a grind?

 

[Zardnaar]

Thank you.

I am not sure there would be much point to low difficulty encounters, though. Wouldn't that just make it even more of a grind?

Yup they're a waste of time. They're really there to drain a spell or 3

That was last campaign. This one and playtesting I'm experimenting more with less tougher encounters, DM specials and environmental factors and exhaustion.
Solos need around double the hp and Rakshasa greater magic resistance.

The rules actually work. As long as youre not 5MWD.

Its the amount of time required. 2 high encounters might take a session maybe 3.

Combat takes around 30 minutes to an hour.

 

[Reynard]

5MWD.

?