High-level overview of Pathfinder vs 3.5

[Jorunkun]

Could anyone point me to a high-level overview of the changes that the Pathfinder RPG is introducing, as compared to 3.5?

Thanks!

J.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Er, is this what you're looking for, or is this maybe a bit too high-level?[sblock=Design Goals, according to Lead Designer Jason Buhlman]Improve the Game: The 3.5 rules set is excellent, but it has its flaws. Over the past few years, a number of common problems have seemed to crop up again and again, problems that delay the game or cause no end of arguments (grapple and polymorph, for example). I wanted the Pathfinder RPG to clean up these rules, by streamlining in places and adding options in others. You can still grapple in the Pathfinder RPG, but it is no longer the huge headache that it was. I also worked to even out some of the choices. A number of 3.5 skills are far less valuable than others, making them suboptimal choices. In my experience, few rogues took Forgery, but Spot was an incredibly common choice. These rules work to even out some of these choices. So while you might still take Perception over Linguistics, the latter is now a far more useful choice than it was before.

Add Options: Just before design began, a friend of mine asked me why no one ever seemed to take rogue beyond 2nd level or fighter beyond 4th level. This got me thinking. Far too many of the basic classes lose their luster after just a few levels, leading most players to take a host of other classes or a number of prestige classes. While this option is still available, I wanted to add more to all the classes, to give each one of them a reason to be followed up through 20th level. To this end, I have tried to add options to the game whenever possible. This is a tricky path to walk, though. Too many options and you end up with overly complicated classes. Too few and players get bored of their class. This principle goes beyond class powers, as well. From sundering to magic items, there are now more options and choices to make than ever before, each one opening up whole new avenues of character and adventure design.

Compatibility: Of all the goals I set out with when designing this game, compatibility ranked near the top. I wanted to make sure that any rules we changed were adaptable to the extensive body of work that exists for the 3.5 rules set. In addition to being compatible, I wanted to ensure that any conversion work would be minimal. In most cases, this meant adding to existing rules, instead of subtracting. So, while we changed the way turning undead works, we did not remove turning undead from the game. We added options to the fighter without removing any of them. This design philosophy doesn't always hold true, however. Some skills were combined and a few disappeared altogether (goodbye Use Rope). Whenever I broke this rule, it was because the other guidelines took precedence.[/sblock]The degree to which these goals are accomplished is frustratingly debatable, but that's at least what they're going for.

 

[RangerWickett]

From what I've seen, Pathfinder looks to make low-level D&D a la 3.5 a little more fun and fresh, but it hasn't done nearly enough to streamline high level play.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

From what I've seen, Pathfinder looks to make low-level D&D a la 3.5 a little more fun and fresh, but it hasn't done nearly enough to streamline high level play.

That is my biggest concern with it as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

From what I've seen, Pathfinder looks to make low-level D&D a la 3.5 a little more fun and fresh, but it hasn't done nearly enough to streamline high level play.

I think it will keep things fun & fresh for more than just the low levels. But otherwise I agree.
At this time, I see it as a nice thing to try out, but I do not believe it can entertain me for long...

 

[Voadam]

Things I've noticed for high level play.

Fewer immunities, death ward and heroes feast give bonuses on saves but not as many immunities.

Fewer save or dies, things like wail of the banshee inflict damage now.

Redoing shapechange and polymorph effects to provide base abilities up to certain limits.

A few more top powers for various classes including core noncasters.

 

[Treebore]

Things I've noticed for high level play.

Fewer immunities, death ward and heroes feast give bonuses on saves but not as many immunities.

Fewer save or dies, things like wail of the banshee inflict damage now.

Redoing shapechange and polymorph effects to provide base abilities up to certain limits.

A few more top powers for various classes including core noncasters.

A good start. The tons of immunities and high DR's definitely make high level play break down. I never had a problem with "save or die", but I allow raise dead and hero/action points to offset those particular problems. Now they just need to address making saves 90% of the time, which between DR, Improved evasion, and immunities makes PC's pretty much unafraid of magic and turns too many high level battles into simple sword fights, making wizard types pretty useless in comparison to fighter types.

At least that is my opinion based on three epic, very epic, level games.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A good start. The tons of immunities and high DR's definitely make high level play break down. I never had a problem with "save or die", but I allow raise dead and hero/action points to offset those particular problems. Now they just need to address making saves 90% of the time, which between DR, Improved evasion, and immunities makes PC's pretty much unafraid of magic and turns too many high level battles into simple sword fights, making wizard types pretty useless in comparison to fighter types.

At least that is my opinion based on three epic, very epic, level games.

As long as spellcasters keep their "utility" magic (teleport, scry, overland flight, speak with dead or raise dead), they will never feel useless. Off course, they will be less overwhelming.

 

[Treebore]

As long as spellcasters keep their "utility" magic (teleport, scry, overland flight, speak with dead or raise dead), they will never feel useless. Off course, they will be less overwhelming.

In combat they become useless. Fighters deal massive damage, because of saves, DR, and Immunities the wizards do little to no damage, mostly no damage, unless they get lucky and use a spell that the opponent doesn't have immunity or 30+ DR on in the first or second round.

Yeah, your a great bus/airplane, but in combat you may as well not even be involved. Cast the buffs and teleport home and wait for the call to come pick them back up.

 

[freyar]

In combat they become useless. Fighters deal massive damage, because of saves, DR, and Immunities the wizards do little to no damage, mostly no damage, unless they get lucky and use a spell that the opponent doesn't have immunity or 30+ DR on in the first or second round.

Yeah, your a great bus/airplane, but in combat you may as well not even be involved. Cast the buffs and teleport home and wait for the call to come pick them back up.

Here's a line from the SRD that might help your spellcasters out, Treebore:

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

That's also in the DMG glossary entry for DR (but not the MM one, oddly enough).