High-level spellcasters slowing down the game

[maggot]

How does everyone else handle this? I'm in two different campaigns that are approaching higher levels (we are about 11th to 13th level). Each game they spend hours choosing spells to prepare and then buffing up the party. And I mean, literally hours. It is quite boring for the spontaneous casters and the pure fighters.

Is there any hope? Clerics and druids in particular are a problem because they can choose from the entire list. Wizards at least have a limited selection, or at least in the two 3.0 campaigns I've been in they do. Clerics are also a problem because of the number of buff spells they have.

Any help? Are we doomed as we approach even higher levels and have even more spells to choose, more spells to choose from, and heaven-forbid multiple metamagic feats to decide between.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Hm... that seems rather odd. Perhaps those players should not be playing those classes if they take so long?

When I was playing a wizard, I just kept a "standard list" of spells, crossing them off in pencil as I used them. When I needed different spells, I erased a spell and replaced it with one I wanted instead.

So first, I think it is important that the players choose a "default" set of spells for their characters. Second, just use pencil and paper to keep track of it. Third, the DM might want to step in if this is a problem. I've seen hours spent discussing a situation or plan, but not for choosing spells. As a DM, I've progressed the story as players were choosing spells, which probably puts pressure on the player to hurry up.

Anyone have a really good way of handling spell memorization? Mine is pretty simple, but playing a preparation caster is going to require bookkeeping, plain and simple.

Later.

 

[Deadguy]

I suppose that, in a sense, the answer is 'yes', a higher level game will need to allow more time for higher level non-spontaneous casters to select their spells. They have more slots to fill, and they deserve a little time to make their choices. After all it's your character's life on the line too!

However, there is no reason for this process to take literally hours! Selecting spells for the first time does take time. But as time goes by, you get a feel for the campaign and for your spells. So some choices are essentially made for you, things like, perhaps, 'always load up on at least three restore spells', or 'make sure I have at least 3 elements available in battle spells'. I find that between games, as a player of a high level character, you can come up with a small number of different lists for certain circumstances, something like a 'defensive' list, an 'all-out offence list', a 'dungeoneering' list, etc. It takes a little work, and is open to refinement, but in broad terms the choices can be made in advance.

Then when you play, the choice is really 'what list do I want?' and 'how am I going to tweak (and I mean tweak) it for the specific circumstances of this day?'. This might still take 15 mins to do, but then I feel that everyone benefits from a quick reappraisal regularly of their character sheet; it's amazing how often at high level that a few specific facets of play slip through your fingers!

An additional element here is that of time management. Both you as players, and particularly the DM, have some say over how time is spent. The DM should consider the needs of all his/her players, and set reasonable limits. Or if you prefer to work by consensus, agree a time limit between you. There's no reason at all for the play to be interrupted literally hours for spell selection (after all, the whole process itself only takes an hour or so, and that includes time to actually partially cast (prepare) all those spells!

As a final thought, playing a caster has more overheads than playing a non-caster. You need to be prepared to put some work in, between games, to get the most from your character. From familiarising yourself with the spellcasting rules, to reading up spell descriptions, to preapring spell preparation lists, all this is best done between gaming sessions. People who are unable, or unwilling, to do so, should out of fairness, consider other options.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I find that between games, as a player of a high level character, you can come up with a small number of different lists for certain circumstances, something like a 'defensive' list, an 'all-out offence list', a 'dungeoneering' list, etc. It takes a little work, and is open to refinement, but in broad terms the choices can be made in advance.

Then when you play, the choice is really 'what list do I want?' and 'how am I going to tweak (and I mean tweak) it for the specific circumstances of this day?'. This might still take 15 mins to do, but then I feel that everyone benefits from a quick reappraisal regularly of their character sheet; it's amazing how often at high level that a few specific facets of play slip through your fingers!

Second that

The way I do it is to use Excel to make a template with the correct number of boxes at each level for spells, bonus spells, and domain spells. Print off a few blank ones.

Then copy the worksheet a few times and fill in the majority of spells on the Around Town list, the Travelling list, the Fighting Lotsa Little Critters list, the Fighting Big Critters list - maybe leaving a few slots blank on each - and print off a few copies of each list.

Then on any given day, I can pull out a sheet for the appropriate list, and all I need to do is fill in the blank slots with day-specific spells.

I also highlight any spells on a given list that I expect to always cast every morning - GMW, or Endure Elements, or Bull's Strength, or whatever, for ease of figuring out what to cross off straight away

The main point is that most of the "figuring out" is done outside of the session, where you aren't wasting the Sorcerer's and Barbarian's players' time.

-Hyp.

 

[heimdall]

We had this situation once. The DM got fed up because the rest of us (even those of us playing prepare spell casters) were done in a few minutes. The DM finally gave a 2 minute warning. When that wasn't heeded, he said, "Okay, you have the same spells as you knew yesterday and that's not up for discussion." He then moved on to the delight of the rest of the party. The player came prepared from them on.

 

[shilsen]

The main point is that most of the "figuring out" is done outside of the session, where you aren't wasting the Sorcerer's and Barbarian's players' time.

-Hyp.

What Hypersmurf said. It looks as if your problem, maggot (when's the last time I said that?), is with the players, not the high level spellcasters. Get them into the habit of working out prepared spell lists out of game. It's likely that only a couple of spells will change on a given day and situation, so that should speed things up. It would also be a good idea to previously decide on a "core" list of buff spells they use, and to work out the changes to the stats of buffed PCs, so that they don't have to be worked out on the spot.

 

[William Ronald]

It does seem that the problem lies with the players.

One option is to prepare different spell lists for different types of adventures. Maybe one list for a role playing event such as investigating a mystery and another for dungeons.

 

[maggot]

You all make some good points. I don't think it is disorganization or inexperience that causes the problem, we are all very experience role and roll players. We even use spreadsheets to track much of this stuff, and it doesn't matter.

Two things that may contribute in our groups are first we all thirty somethings with jobs and families, and thus we don't have a lot of time to prepare before games.

Second, we play an unscripted game where the characters get a lot of say in what they do. The typical game goes like this:

"Do we go to the temple of evil fire today or help out with the rampaging trolls? If the former, we all need protection from fire spells, so the druid can take five of those and the cleric two more, but then the cleric can't cast those extended bull's strengths, so maybe the wizard should take a few and.... And if we go after the trolls, we'll all need fire spells..." And on and on. Then a little later after deciding to go after the temple of evil fire, "Maybe this ranger-dude will help us out, so now we need another protection from fire spell, so we can get that tomorrow if the cleric just takes one extended bull..." Argh!!!! Some times I want to screem.

Okay at this point I'm just venting. Thanks for all your advice. The only advice I won't be able use it to tell people they have only 15 minutes to decide which spells to take. The players would say, "but my character has all night to decide" (minus sleep of course, but in D&D 3.0 adventuring takes up maybe an hour of a day unless you are doing some serious overland travel which high-level types just teleport anyway).

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

At the very least, they should have standard Buff spells planned out. Every Fighter gets Bull's Strength, Rogues get Cat's Grace, mark off X spell slots daily, ect.

But yes, Wizards are all about bookkeeping. If it stays a problem, maybe they should switch to Sorcerers, or spontaneous casting Clerics.

 

[Chris Coulter]

Wizards are all about bookkeeping. If it stays a problem, maybe they should switch to Sorcerers, or spontaneous casting Clerics.

I've got to agree. If your choice of character class clashes with the amount of time it requires to implement, make a character who you can play without derailing the game for the other players.

We all have a responsibility to keep the game running smoothly.
(don't get me started about inter-party conflict...)