High magic 4th Age Middle Earth idea

[Derulbaskul]

I like the ideas here. Another option for magic is to use channelers from Midnight. They can cast basically any spell that is not exclusive to clerics but are limited by spell energy (a simply spell points system) to how many they can cast a day. To compensate for their lower power, they have d6 hit dice and the BAB of a cleric.

 

[SSquirrel]

You can find a good Tolkien timeline here (http://www.lotruk.com/timeline/) and a very odd one here (http://alt-tolkien.com/timeline.html).

Elessar doesn't die until 120FA, which then has Gimli and Legolas cross the sea to the Undying Lands as well.

Important notes from the ROTK appendix:
New Year's Day 1422:Fourth Age begins
1427 Elessar decrees men are not to enter the Shire and it is a free land under his protection.
1434 Merry, Pippin and Sam become Counsellors of the North-kingdom
1452 The Westmarch (Far Downs to the Tower Hills or Emyn Beraid) is added to the Shire, causing many hobbits to move there
1482 Rose dies and on Sept 22nd Sam travels to the Grey Havens after giving the Red Book of Westmarch to his daughter Elanor and travels across the sea
1484 King Eomer dies while Merry and Pippin visit him. They both die in Gondor a few years later
1541 March 1st, Elessar passes. Gimli and Legolas leave Middle Earth in a ship Legolas builds. 120 years after the end of the War of the Ring.

Hagen

 

[Errant]

Actually I said Arcana Unearthed, the Malhavoc Monte Cook variant PHB. Very cool book and should also be on your "to get" list *grin*

Oops, my bad. Consider me corrected!

Thanks for the extra info all, you've saved me heaps of time looking things up myself and made it much easier for me to appreciate who the PCs might run into or be related to.

My group is pretty limited at present for how often we can play (due to half of us being stationed away from the others with work) & I don't have half as much time as I'd like to develope things. We do have a game coming up soon though so with the help you've given me I'm sure I can put something together.

At present, I'm considering revamping the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth or the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (aka Melkor) to the ME setting. Nice classic modules that should fit well with heroes trying to prevent/counter the awakening of ancient evils in Angmar/Morder. I think.

I'm thinking encounters with warg (warbeast-direwolves) riding orcs, & plate armored "trolls" (giants) might be fun. Not sure what else yet though.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Oops, my bad. Consider me corrected!

Thanks for the extra info all, you've saved me heaps of time looking things up myself and made it much easier for me to appreciate who the PCs might run into or be related to.

My group is pretty limited at present for how often we can play (due to half of us being stationed away from the others with work) & I don't have half as much time as I'd like to develope things. We do have a game coming up soon though so with the help you've given me I'm sure I can put something together.

At present, I'm considering revamping the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth or the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (aka Melkor) to the ME setting. Nice classic modules that should fit well with heroes trying to prevent/counter the awakening of ancient evils in Angmar/Morder. I think.

I'm thinking encounters with warg (warbeast-direwolves) riding orcs, & plate armored "trolls" (giants) might be fun. Not sure what else yet though.

Quite cool ideas--has some interesting potential.

BTW, I'd recommend Unearthed Arcana for the optional rules they provide. IMHO, the generic classes from UA seem to be much more accomodating for adapting stuff rather than trying to shoehorn stuff into a more specific mechanics set.

As for races & whatnot, I'd figure that humans & halflings could pretty much be played as is. IIRC, the Dunedain were a dwindling kind, & probably should be rarely encountered at all. Dwarves are fine as is, though they may be rare since they become much more withdrawn into the mountain homes. Elves should be extremely rare (NPCs only, IMHO), though half-elves & perhaps an "elf-touched" race (along the concept/lines of the planetouched/feytouched races) could be ways for players to access the dwindling legacy of the Elves; along the same lines, perhaps a "Dunedain-touched" race, or maybe a "Blood of the Dunedain" feat for humans could be a way for players to have ties with the Dunedain. Beornings may be too potent for starting PCs--perhaps a "Blood of the Bear" feat for humans could hint at Beorning ancestry. Half-orcs seem viable, but with the clear-cut black/white view of ME, I don't think they'd be feasible for PCs, esp. for a non-Evil group.

Goblins would work great for Orcs, Orcs or Hobgoblins for the Uruk-Hai, & I'd think Ogres (modified for the sunlight weakness for normal trolls, and as-is for the Olog-Hai) would fit in well for Trolls.

But, of course, since the lands of the East aren't as richly detailed as the West, then I think that a bit more possibilities for creative license are available.

Quick question for those who may be more knowledgeable about LotR--did most/all of Sauron's minions perish when the One Ring was destroyed? I know that Sauron & the Nazgul would have been eliminated, while Saruman & Wormtongue met their end in the Shire. However, what about the Mouth of Sauron? If he (possibly) is still alive & kickin', I could see him trying to gather together the tattered remnants of Sauron's forces in a bid for revenge & personal conquest of his own.

Of course, either or both of the missing Blue Wizards (Pallando & Alator) could emerge as a new threat to Middle-Earth, perhaps inspiring/manipulating the forces of the East to rise against Gondor & the West.

And, of course, not all of the old evils may be completely accounted for--there may still be a spider nest in Mirkwood; Shelob may still live in Cirith Ungol; some dragons may yet still slumber; a balrog or two may still be concealed in some hitherto-yet-unrevealed deep place in the earth; spawn of the vampires & werewolves of the Simillarion may yet still roam some lands; some of the huorns & trees once shepherded by the Ents may turn nasty, wild, & angry, like Old Man Willow; or even mere ambition & greed may drive a mortal man to strive for treachery, war, & conquest in a bid to gain personal power & glory.

 

[Remathilis]

Errant,

Ssquirrel recommended ARCANA UNEARTHED (Malhavoc Press) for less damaging spells,

AFGNCAAP recomneded UNEARTHED ARCANA (WotC) for the generic classes and alot of useful low magic rules.

The two books are seperate. Watch out. (I reccommend the WotC one for what your doing, btw).

If you do go UA (wotc) route, consider these rules.

Generic Classes. A MUST.
Defense Bonus. Armor isn't big in Middle Earth, so Defense bonus is the way to go.
Armor as Damage Reduction. However, some characters would prefer it. This is a good mix.
Wound/Vitality Points: Gritty, realisitic, and heroic combat, tinged with danger in every hit, but faster to recover from nonlethal hits.

Those are my suggestions.

 

[Intrope]

Quick question for those who may be more knowledgeable about LotR--did most/all of Sauron's minions perish when the One Ring was destroyed? I know that Sauron & the Nazgul would have been eliminated, while Saruman & Wormtongue met their end in the Shire. However, what about the Mouth of Sauron? If he (possibly) is still alive & kickin', I could see him trying to gather together the tattered remnants of Sauron's forces in a bid for revenge & personal conquest of his own.

The Nazgul should be the only servants of Sauron that just dropped dead when he did. Most everything else should be alive, unless they were slain in battle or crushed when Barad-dur fell down. Something I don't recall from the books is whether the other holdings of Sauron (the black gate and Minas Morgul) collapsed when the ring fell (they really shouldn't have, since Sauron didn't build either of those, but I think they actually did in the book).

The Mouth of Sauron could well be alive, since he was a mortal man. Of course, by 100 FA he'd be wormfood in any case.

BTW, you might want to entertain the notion that the Nazgul actually reverted to human form when the One Ring was destroyed (After all, Bilbo--who was older than any other Hobbit ever--didn't drop dead at that moment either), and are now potentially alive (again) and doing who-knows-what. From my understanding, not all of them were originally evil (they were enslaved by their rings first). So, perhaps some ancient Numenorean now walks the earth, confused and bent on revenge (I doubt he'd be sane after that long as a wraith...)

Of course, either or both of the missing Blue Wizards (Pallando & Alator) could emerge as a new threat to Middle-Earth, perhaps inspiring/manipulating the forces of the East to rise against Gondor & the West.

And, of course, not all of the old evils may be completely accounted for--there may still be a spider nest in Mirkwood; Shelob may still live in Cirith Ungol; some dragons may yet still slumber; a balrog or two may still be concealed in some hitherto-yet-unrevealed deep place in the earth; spawn of the vampires & werewolves of the Simillarion may yet still roam some lands; some of the huorns & trees once shepherded by the Ents may turn nasty, wild, & angry, like Old Man Willow; or even mere ambition & greed may drive a mortal man to strive for treachery, war, & conquest in a bid to gain personal power & glory.

You could also take a riff of the Movie and have some Orc Captain make a bid for power to establish the 'Age of Orcs' after all, some of the later-model Orcs were apparently both powerful and relatively smart.
Also note that they are very few people in the North these days; and with the passing of the Elves everything East of Bree and West of the Mountains is basically empty (Rivendell was the only inhabitation in that region). An Orc-cheif trying to establish a New Angmar could be a good plot.
Also, the Southern part of Mordor isn't a wasteland (unlike the north) and the slaves that tended farmland in that region are freed after the fall of Sauron. Maybe they'll rise to power as well...

Hope that helps!

 

[craftyrat]

colours of magic

I am thinking of developing 'colours of magic' for a regular-magic 4th age LotR campaign. Thus there would be brown mages, blue mages, white mages, gray mages, etc, all casting as sorcerers and all with different spell selections. White mages would be similar to clerics, brown mages to druids, etc, though all would have arcane spell failure. I'll post something here when I get it done. The pseudo-logic would be that with the new age, magic has passed from the few (maiar, etc) into the general population.

What I am looking for is an outline map of middle earth (no text at all, just geographic features, preferably just black and white). Has anyone seen such a thing?

craftyrat

 

[SSquirrel]

Quite cool ideas--has some interesting potential.

BTW, I'd recommend Unearthed Arcana for the optional rules they provide. IMHO, the generic classes from UA seem to be much more accomodating for adapting stuff rather than trying to shoehorn stuff into a more specific mechanics set.

As for races & whatnot, I'd figure that humans & halflings could pretty much be played as is. IIRC, the Dunedain were a dwindling kind, & probably should be rarely encountered at all. Dwarves are fine as is, though they may be rare since they become much more withdrawn into the mountain homes. Elves should be extremely rare (NPCs only, IMHO), though half-elves & perhaps an "elf-touched" race (along the concept/lines of the planetouched/feytouched races) could be ways for players to access the dwindling legacy of the Elves; along the same lines, perhaps a "Dunedain-touched" race, or maybe a "Blood of the Dunedain" feat for humans could be a way for players to have ties with the Dunedain. Beornings may be too potent for starting PCs--perhaps a "Blood of the Bear" feat for humans could hint at Beorning ancestry. Half-orcs seem viable, but with the clear-cut black/white view of ME, I don't think they'd be feasible for PCs, esp. for a non-Evil group.

Goblins would work great for Orcs, Orcs or Hobgoblins for the Uruk-Hai, & I'd think Ogres (modified for the sunlight weakness for normal trolls, and as-is for the Olog-Hai) would fit in well for Trolls.

But, of course, since the lands of the East aren't as richly detailed as the West, then I think that a bit more possibilities for creative license are available.

Quick question for those who may be more knowledgeable about LotR--did most/all of Sauron's minions perish when the One Ring was destroyed? I know that Sauron & the Nazgul would have been eliminated, while Saruman & Wormtongue met their end in the Shire. However, what about the Mouth of Sauron? If he (possibly) is still alive & kickin', I could see him trying to gather together the tattered remnants of Sauron's forces in a bid for revenge & personal conquest of his own.

Of course, either or both of the missing Blue Wizards (Pallando & Alator) could emerge as a new threat to Middle-Earth, perhaps inspiring/manipulating the forces of the East to rise against Gondor & the West.

And, of course, not all of the old evils may be completely accounted for--there may still be a spider nest in Mirkwood; Shelob may still live in Cirith Ungol; some dragons may yet still slumber; a balrog or two may still be concealed in some hitherto-yet-unrevealed deep place in the earth; spawn of the vampires & werewolves of the Simillarion may yet still roam some lands; some of the huorns & trees once shepherded by the Ents may turn nasty, wild, & angry, like Old Man Willow; or even mere ambition & greed may drive a mortal man to strive for treachery, war, & conquest in a bid to gain personal power & glory.

First up also consider that the Glittering Caves of Aglarond (where Gimli REALLY fell back to during the Battle of Helm's Deep) are ruled by Gimli until he leaves and Legolas brings a lot of elves to the nearby area of Ithilien as well.

The Mouth of Sauron was human but who knows what Sauron had done to make him live longer. He could well be around. The Nazgul burst into flames as did their beasts they flew on b/c they were inherently tied to the one ring.
It was the only thing basically allowing them to continue. Once it was gone, so were they. Minas Morgul did not fall, but the Black Gate and Barad-Dur did. Hmm...looking in the ROTK I can't find the destruction of the Nazgul, but I'm pretty sure it's covered in one of the other books like Lost Tales etc.

The lands of the East will offer a wealth of ideas as Tolkien only really developed that area in the Silmarillion and that was prior to either of the giant lamps of the world being destroyed by Morgoth. I can imagine that the Blue WIzards and Saruman went into the east (as is stated in the books) and they got caught up in power and such and started an empire (or a feuding pair) and still rule it today. Saruman would have left in disgust at the time.

Half Elves>Elrond is the only Half Elf in the world. His sons are thus 3/4 Elven. I don't know if I would really include Half Elves in the game. Maybe have some elves who couldn't leave the world and thus are still around. The elves of Mirkwood and down in Ithilien are obviously still around tochoose from.

Beornings>They don't become nearly as powerful as Beorn until they're around 20th level. I think the Bear Totem Warrior from AU is a perfect fit for them. Also, the men that Beorn gathered to him never achieved his equal, but they were both strong and good men.

1/2 Orcs>Nope, they'd be gutted in the street *grin* Besides, in ME Orcs are the product of magical experiments and not procreation. I would say that the threat of orcs will be seriously hindered by this point, unless someone like the blue wizards has discovered the methods of creating them as Saruman did.

Possibly some spiders in Mirkwood and I would imagine SHelob is back to her old tricks by now as she was not killed...but she was very wounded. Her eyes would likely never regenerate...but I know nothing of spiders maybe they would. Some dragons were still to be found in the North I believe, but more up by the blue mountains near the parts of the world that went away at the end of the First Age. The Silmarillion hints that more than 1 Balrog escaped to hide, not so sure about vampires and werewolves. Huorns are easily covered by using treants and I would say that any that are far away from Treebeard are more likely to be problematic. Tom Bombadil is likely still the master of his own small world as well. "He was the first and so shall he be the last" or some such.

Hagen (a great big Tolkien geek)

 

[SSquirrel]

Oh yeah I forgot, there have been TONS of books oevr the years to include excellent maps of both Middle Earth and Valinor. I don't even know the names of them, but you can likely find some good maps in some of the currently available books. Otherwise, look at your library for some Middle Earth related books. I remember a teacher of mine used to have one, nice big book...had tons of great illustrations from the books and it also had some excellent maps. Can't recall its title for the life of me.

Heck do a google search, I'm sure folks have scanned them. A buddy of mine does a Middle Earth by mail turn based game. They make good maps specifically for that as well

Hagen

 

[Errant]

I am thinking of developing 'colours of magic' for a regular-magic 4th age LotR campaign....

What I am looking for is an outline map of middle earth (no text at all, just geographic features, preferably just black and white). Has anyone seen such a thing?

This is the best site I've found for Middle Earth maps.