Highest AC's

[Kelleris]

My two characters are basically diametrically opposed on this issue.

The fey ninja (feytouched Bard 10/Battle Dancer 1/Chaos Monk 1/Exoticist 1) has an AC of 33 most of the time, 41 when fighting defensively with his favored weapon, and 46 if an opponent misses him five times consecutively with the Defensive Metered Foot feat. The breakdown is 10 (base) + 10 (Dexterity with inner beauty) + 3 (Intelligence, from Chaos Monk and Kung Fu Genius feat) + 9 (Charisma with inner beauty, from Battle Dancer) + 1 (ring of protection +1). Fighting defensively adds 3 (5 ranks of Tumble) + 2 (Einhander feat) + 1 (bracers of nimbleness) + 1 (broadblade shortsword) + 1 (Cautious trait).

My "best possible" AC adds haste cast by myself (+1), mage armor from a potion (+4), and a mass shield of faith from the party's 13th-level Cleric (+3 due to not stacking with the ring), for a total AC of 54. He has a +42 Tumble check, so he can also gain +4 AC versus ranged attacks by dropping prone at the end of his turn and then standing as a free action when he wants to act again.

The savage life magus (human Barbarian 1/Battle Sorcerer 16) has a base AC of an impressive 8 - base 10, minus 1 for the Vulnerable flaw, minus 1 for the Aggressive trait. His "worst possible" AC "adds" Reckless Offensive (-4), Reckless Rage (-4), a quickened enlarge person (-2), and charging (-2), for a truly awful AC of -4.

My previously stated rule of thumb for "good" AC is roughly 5*character level. It only holds for level 8 and up, as obviously one can hit AC 40 well before level 8 if one wants to (and has splatbook access) without trying too hard.

This is by no means a ceiling, just a point of reference that I use.

I think your reference points may be shared by almost no one else in this thread, looking at what they have. The fey ninja I mentioned above is pretty twinked out for his ninja-style role, but his very best AC is 10 points short of your supposed "good" AC. And yet there is literally nothing I've ever fought that didn't need a 20 to hit my full defense AC - pit fiends and balors need natural 20s to hit that, for Pelor's sake! (And it's a good thing too, since that character has an 8 Con and a massive 47 hit points at 13th level.) That 5-times-level reference may be yours, but it certainly isn't the one the game assumes...

 

[moritheil]

That 5-times-level reference may be yours, but it certainly isn't the one the game assumes...

I have never hidden the fact that nearly all monsters and encounters straight out of the book are considered woefully inadequate by my gaming group's standards. The fellow who runs our party's "main tank" character usually winds up with an AC well above my reference point, so I don't think my reference is too high.

It's good to hear that it clearly divides tweaked and nontweaked characters, though. That makes it useful.

 

[gnfnrf]

I play a 25% overwealth 25 pt buy 10th level cleric of Bahamut with a walking AC of 24.

I also play an on wealth 25 pt buy 5th level Beguiler with an AC of 18.

--
gnfnrf

 

[nittanytbone]

20+Level for a very good AC is not unreasonable.

For example, a low level character can pretty easily have:

TANK

Dex 12: +1 Dex
Plate +1: +9 Armor
Shield +1: +2 Shield
Protection from Evil (Deflection +2): +2 Deflection
Barkskin: +2 Natural

Total: AC 26

A mid-to-low level cleric could easily pull that off, with a potion of Barkskin.

 

[zlorf]

Yeah, thats what im taking about!!!

The party of 5 im DMing are around 12th lvl.

I dont have the character sheets available at this moment.

But most of the characters AC range from high 20's to low to mid 30's depending on
fighting style, who they are fighting and buff spells..etc etc. Only the sorceror has a AC 14.

Nice stuff Caliban...i might use your character as one of the bad guys at the end ..if you
dont mind of course *grin*

Cheers
Z

My 18th level Ftr4/Mnk2/Exotic Weapon 1/Pious Templar 1/Dwarven Defender 10 has a base AC of 40, and can pump it up to 55 or 56 with various tricks (combat Expertise, Defensive Stance, Haste, potion of Barkskin +5, Dodge), or 60 against giants.

His base touch AC is 25, and by using Combat Expertise, Dodge, and Defensive stance can get that to a 35 touch AC. He also have Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and Mettle.

His AC breakdown is complicated: 10 + 10 (mith breastplate +5) + 5 (animated shield +3), +3 (dwarven defender bonus), +5 (Dex), +2 (sacred bonus from helm), +4 (ring of protection), +1 (ioun stone) = 40 normal, 25 touch

My 14th level Sor10/Argent Savant4 has an AC of around 30 most of the time. (10 + 4 from Dex, +8 from Greater Mage armor, +6 from Shield, +2 from Ring of Protection.) Before Alter Self was banned from the campaign he regularly had a 36 AC (Troglodyte for +6 natural armor). Sometimes he uses Reduce Self to get another +2 AC, or a Potion of Barkskin +5. He also regularly uses Empowered False life, Greater Invis or Greater Blink, and has a ring of evasion.

My 11th level Brb1/Ftr4/Dervish 6 Has a base AC of 24 (10 +8 from Mith Breastplate +3, +1 from ioun stone, +3 from Dex, +2 from dervish). This increases by up to +10 when he uses Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Expertise - which he often does as he can take a full move and a full round worth of attacks a the same time. He also begs for Shield of Faith and Barkskin whenever possible. He also uses the Elusive Target tactical feat from Complete Warrior to make people not want to attack or flank him. =)

These are all 28 point buy characters that have I have played in the Living Greyhawk campaign.

 

[Evilhalfling]

my 8th level party ranged from 19 to 26 although DR2/- from the dragon shaman was common.
I would certainly aggree
10+lvl = poor
15+lvl = average
20+lvl = good

according to the DM's friend chart of average monster stats CR<10)
cr+8 to cr +18 AC is the ballpark

 

[Caliban]

Yeah, thats what im taking about!!!

The party of 5 im DMing are around 12th lvl.

I dont have the character sheets available at this moment.

But most of the characters AC range from high 20's to low to mid 30's depending on
fighting style, who they are fighting and buff spells..etc etc. Only the sorceror has a AC 14.

Nice stuff Caliban...i might use your character as one of the bad guys at the end ..if you
dont mind of course *grin*

Cheers
Z

Go right ahead, glad to help.

 

[Jemal]

I have never hidden the fact that nearly all monsters and encounters straight out of the book are considered woefully inadequate by my gaming group's standards. The fellow who runs our party's "main tank" character usually winds up with an AC well above my reference point, so I don't think my reference is too high.

It's good to hear that it clearly divides tweaked and nontweaked characters, though. That makes it useful.

Agreed. My party walks through 4-6 encounters a day that are supposed to be CR's 2-4 levels higher.
And the party is usually only 2-3 PC's.

 

[JoelF]

My Ftr7/Dwarven Defender 9 has a base AC of 41, flat footed 41, touch 22.

+1 Mithril Heavy Fortification Battle Plate (from races of stone): +10 armor
+3 Tower shield: +7 shield
Amulet of nat armor +2
Dex +3
Ring of protection: +3 deflection
Dusty rose ioun stone: +1 insight
Heavy armor opt and greater heavy armor opt feats* (RoS): +2
Dwarven Defender: +3
with dodge feat & Dwarven Def stance +5
vs. giants +4


* - we disagree with the sage that these feats don't work on mithril heavy armor, based on the actual wording of mithril in the DMG

I'm actually starting to get hit occasionally, so I'll be boosting the shield to +5 and taking the Titan fighting feat from RoS soon.

 

[Nail]

Give them more armor boosting gear, and whenever they sell it, have the next guy be a power attacking ogre barbarian

I'd tell them. Any other method is playing guessing games, and I never do that with my players. I discuss strengths, weaknesses, tactics and the like with them, bring up strengths and weaknesses of the feats/spells/abilities they're choosing and suggest feats/spells/abilities they may not have considered, etc. So if I think there's a particular weakness, I'll bring it up.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I do try to *gently* tell them, individually or as a group, when their choices and/or tactics aren't working well. Then again, I'm also trying to give them room to make mistakes. It's tough balancing act, as no one wants a bunch of paternalistic, know-it-all lecturing....and yet even fewer people wanna be dead.

Currently there is a "myth" in my game that the "monsters are just gonna hit anyway, so why bother with AC?"

Ouch.