Highlander

Anubis said:
Also, Michelle had an argument with her parents before driving over a cliff for her first death, and then she watched her oown funeral that her parents gave her.

Just a tiny little nit, but Michelle was adopted.

Anyway, regarding the suggestions, they sound really powerful to me, as in, too powerful. The biggest problem, though, is that the TV show was never completely coherent (as all TV is not), not to mention incredibly unrealistic (not just the obvious basic fantasy). Any system of Immortals, in order to be internally consistent, will have to ignore some aspects of the show. I think Khaalis's suggestions are good for the most part. Unfortunately I don't have a firm enough grasp of D&D to make direct suggestions, but I also feel the alignment stats are a bit strict. But no matter how they end up, I think that the Immortal should be allowed to change alignment voluntarily at any point--that is, if s/he takes someone's head and that someone is any other alignment, the Immortal should be free to take that new alignment immediately. If that's too drastic, perhaps s/he could just take a step in the direction of the deceased. This could be worked out to suit the individual. I think also the system outlined by Khaalis could work with chaotic/lawful as well as good/evil, but that might be too complicated to implement.

Another note: it should be stated that if a mortal or a machine takes an Immortal's head, the closest Immortal receives the Quickening. Because this is debatable, it could be changed to intentions. If the closest Immortal *intended* to take the other's head, then s/he receives it, but if no Immortal was trying to, the Quickening is lost. Actually, now that I think about it, I like that better because it makes, to me, much more sense. If this still isn't right, it could be done so that the Immortal gets the Quickening, but the amount of power is reduced (but it couldn't be a significant reduction).

Also, I don't think that Immortals have the ability to sense Holy Ground. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember that ever being shown or stated in the series . . . and it doesn't make much sense.

Edit: new thoughts, additions, clarifications
 
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I suggest anyone who wants to accurately portray the Highlander mythology should take a look at Highlander d20, or create a system themselves. Simply dropping an immortal into a D&D campaign would be crazy.

Also note that the idea of one Immortal taking another Immortal's power is not exactly crystal clear. From the first episode to the last, Duncan does not get noticably stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, or anything else. He doesn't start flying, or gain any magical powers (even though some Immortals were portrayed as having them.)

Indeed, it always seemed to me that the "power" Immortals got when they slew another Immortal had no bearing on their "toughness" at all, but rather was something that, once it had all accumulated in a single being, would become the Prize. Call it spirit, if you will, or essence.

The only part of the series that seemed to contradict this was the Horsemen story arc, where, as already noted, Methos seems to believe that if Duncan kills him, it'll "power up" Duncan enough to take on Kallas and win.

That said, I probably wouldn't give the victorious Immortal any stat points. And I also wouldn't give them any levels. Remember that ordinary people could kill Immortals, as per the show. For a while, the Watchers were hunting down and offing Immortals. If Immortals had 100 levels, this wouldn't be possible.

Instead, I'd give an Immortal a +1 to attack (not BAB) with swords (no other weapons) per HD of the Immortal slain. This would represent the skill gained by absorbing the vanquished Immortal's essence.

Anyway, food for thought.
 

One perhaps off the wall thought - why not make the "Immortal" a prestige class for which experience can only be gained based on killing other Immortals?

Gaining 1st level could occur as normal (i.e. after the first death) but experience towards subsequent levels would need to come from slaying other Immortals.

This would give the character additional power from slaying Immortals in the traditional D&D sense (i.e. gaining levels).

I've not thought this through as it could cause all sorts of account keeping problems (i.e. gaining standard levels with standard experience points would make the experience needed for Immortal levels a moving feast!).

However, may be this makes even more sense. If Immortals can no longer gain ordinary experience points once they enter the Immortal PrC and can only gain experience to increase in levels from other Immortals it might explain why it they don't have 100 levels in standard classes due to living so long.

Just a thought . . .
 

VERSION 2

Ok, to accumulate all of the comments thus far.

First I will say that I think an Immortal “could” still fit in a D&D game. They should be no more overbalanced than Liches, Archmagi, Dracogons, etc. To balance this we need to make a decent Template that works to the “SPIRIT” of the immortal, without overbalancing to some ludicrous concept of the Billion Level Immortal.

So with that said…

On Power:
It is true that what is gained is not clear, however we do know that an immortal gains memories and knowledge from the immortal they have slain. This is shown in both film and TV repeatedly. I also agree that no special “powers” such as levitation, hiding the sword in plain clothes, etc. are granted to the immortal. This is an unnecessary mechanic for a D&D game since an immortal can be of any class and as such have access to abilities a “Highlander D20” would not normally have access to. What the Immortal DOES gain is knowledge and I do believe some strength. There are various points in both Film and TV where Immortals discuss that if one immortal takes another they will grow stronger. Cases in point: Ramirez discusses the strength of the Kurgan being the oldest and most powerful; Methos telling Duncan to kill him to slay Kallas, etc.

I do think that immortals become quicker, stronger etc from the quickening, but I thin it is at a somewhat slow rate depending on the strength of the immortals. For D&D balance this needs to be made even slower.

As for the +1 to attack rolls with a Sword per HD of the slain Immortal… I think that would be far too powerful. 3 or 4 kills and the Immortal would have some ridiculous +30 or more to their attack rolls. We “could” use this concept in the growth chart but it would have to be based on overall power (Quickening Points) rather than gained at such a fast rate.

There are 2 Main ways to limit the power of the immortal.
1) Rarity - DM Control. Just because someone is immortal does not mean they need to meet an immortal every game session. Immortals should be relatively rare. Especially in a D&D world.
2) Decrease the rate at which abilities are gained due to quickening. (See new tables)


On the point of Holy Ground.
This is more for a D&D game where “Holy Ground” is not as set or common as in the Real World. To argue for it, it seems to be a part of the Quickening power the immortal has. In the original film Ramirez teaches Connor how to sense the quickening, how to feel the heartbeat of the stag. It has also been shown throughout various episodes that immortals have an uncanny ability to locate holy ground. This might be from extensive knowledge of an area, but it has happened in areas an immortal is new to. There is also the “Cant you feel it? This is holy ground” comments scattered here and there.


On the point of Alignment:
I feel it is necessary to include the threat of Alignment change. This is a forced occurrence, and is never by “choice”. The Dark Quickening arc details this. Duncan had taken one too many evil heads and the “build up” of evil memories was finally too much for him to master. Granted, the system I originally through out there was too much, so I think a new system is in order. Something more along the line of tallying a side record when accumulating Quickening Points, denoting how many points were taken and of what alignment, especially since in D&D Alignment is a much more specific concept than in the Real World/Highlander concept. We could allow a Will save (DC 10+1 per X number of Quickening points in an opposed alignment). Failure indicates an alignment shift to that alignment.


ECL:
ECL +4 may not be a bad place to start. I don’t think there will be much need for scaling once the power gain is more balanced.



Immortal Template v2

"Remember Highlander, Live, grow stronger. Live another day." - Methos

Immortals seem to appear at random from the humanoid populations and appear no different than other creatures of their type. One in a million perhaps, maybe less are born as Immortals. They age, living a normal life, until they first are killed. Then they miraculously recover, and begin their lives as immortals. Immortals cannot have children. They do not age, and do not get sick. They cannot drown, or die from any conventional injury: they will always recover, no matter how severe the damage. The only way for them to die is to have their head removed from their body.

Down through the ages, a legend has been passed from mouth to mouth - that of the Prize. The legend says that at a time when the number of immortals in the world grows small, the remaining immortals shall feel an urge to travel to a far-away land, where they shall fight until only one remains. The final survivor shall win the Prize. No one knows exactly what this Prize is, but to win it is the goal of every immortal, as it is assumed that the person who wins it would be, in effect, a god.

The term Quickening refers to the lifeforce of an immortal. It is the sum of all his knowledge and power, all of his strength and experience. It is a life force so strong that it keeps the immortal from aging and heals his wounds at an advanced-speed. Quickening is what the immortals fight for: when they fight, they fight to literally absorb their opponent's lifeforce into themselves, thus making themselves more powerful.

The Rules "Holy Ground Highlander! Remember what Ramirez taught you!" - Kurgen

The immortals have rules of engagement: these rules are traditions, with a basis in common sense, and all immortals follow them. These rules are each based around Quickening, and the gain and loss thereof.

Holy/Unholy Ground: The Golden Rule for immortals is that they must never fight on Holy Ground. None will violate this rule, for they have too much to lose. Thus, Holy Ground can become a haven or sanctuary for immortals; a place where they retreat when faced with an impossible opponent. While it is not known precisely why this is, it is known that it is physically possible for immortals to fight one another while on Holy Ground, but when immortal have ever beheaded another in such a duel, the result is cataclysmic destruction (similar to a massive lightning storm in the area) and all of the Quickening released is lost to the site of the Holy Ground, absorbed into the earth itself, instead of passing to the victor. Holy Ground consists of churches and graveyard as well as any other area that has been affected by a Hallow or Unhallow spell (usually cemeteries, churches, shrines, monasteries, etc.).

Multiple Opponents: The second rule is that the immortals always fight one on one. This is generally an honor issue, and can and has been broken. However, it has been proven that if two or more Immortals team-up against a single Immortal in combat, the Immortal that actually takes the head receives all the appropriate Quickening from the dead Immortal. This does not always set well with other immortals.


These are the only two real rules. Evil immortals will stop at nothing else to gain Quickening: friends and loved ones are often pulled in as pawns in the battles, as are helpless innocents who have nothing to do with the Game... no one is truly safe, although it is only a particularly evil immortal who would take the head of a new immortal, who hasn't yet learnt how to defend themselves.



Creating an Immortal:
Immortals are born, not created. However, the “Immortal” template is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid, or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter as the base creature). An Immortal uses all of the character's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. The creature’s type changes to Immortal. To acquire the Immortal template, the creature must die to be reborn into immortality. This is refered to as First Death. This death can happen as any death short of dying of old age. The specifics of the creature's first death should be recorded.


Special Attacks: An Immortal retains all of the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following.

Favored Enemy [Immortal] (Ex): Due to their extensive study of their own nature, their training in the proper techniques for combating other immortals, and the driving force of the prize increasing, Immortals gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, they gain a +2 bonus to weapon damage rolls against other immortals.


Special Qualities: An Immortal retains all of the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following.

Death & Resurrection (Ex): Each time the Immortal "dies" (reduced to -10), they will be Raised (as the spell, including the level loss/Constitution loss) within 6 hours of their "death".

Electricity Resistance (Ex): Immortal have a natural resistance to Electricity, gaining Electricity Resistance 5.

Fast Healing (Ex): Immortals heal miraculously from most of their wounds but they do not regenerate lost body parts, thus they acquire Fast Healing 1, recovering 1hp per round. Note that wounds to the neck will only heal as Natural Healing and will always scar. Also note that damage from starvation, and suffocation ARE healed through this ability.

Sense Holy Ground (Ex): Immortal have a uncanny sense for detecting Holy/Unholy Ground and can do so a standard action, at will, with a range of 120 yards.

Sense Quickening (Ex): Immortals can sense other Immortals. This begins with a range of 30' and is automatic anytime an immortal is within range. A Fortitude Save (DC 10) must be made or become Nauseous for 1d4 rounds when the quickening is sensed. The Immortal cannot locate the source of the quickening in a crowd however, they only sense the presence of an immortal. This does not negate surprise rounds, as either Immortal can still be caught flat-footed against another immortal with the aid of ambush, concealment, invisibility, etc.

Timeless Body (Ex): When becoming immortal the base creature gains the ability of no longer physically aging. They suffer no ability penalties from aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties they may have already suffered, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue as the Immortal ages, but they now gain the +1 bonus to INT, WIS and CHA for every 100 years of life. It must also be noted that Immortals cannot reproduce and will never have children of their own.

Water Breathing (Ex): All immortals can breath underwater.


Quickening: Quickening is the experience of absorbing a slain immortal’s life force. This is experienced as lightning storm from the deceased immortal. Each time an immortal is slain, the victor records the event, acquiring 1/5 of the slain immortal’s Current Quickening points (round down – minimum of 1).

Also note that each time Quickening Points are acquired, it must be recorded what alignment orientation the points came from when they come from an opposed alignment (Good vs. Evil).

(Example: Duncan [LG] slays Kallas [LE] acquiring 10 Quickening points. Kallas is Evil which is an opposition to Duncan, so Duncan records that he has received 10 Evil Quickening points. See “Alignment” below)


Receiving the Quickening: The lightning storm does damage to the receiving immortal, doing a base 1d6 Electricity Damage plus an additional 1d6 per 10 Current Quickening points the dead immortal had. A Fortitude save (DC 10+Constitution modifier of the dead immortal) is allowed for half damage. If the Immortal would be reduced to below 0hp they remain stabilized at 0hp (unconscious) until they heal.

Quickening Fatigue: Absorbing a Quickening does electricity damage based on the power of the slain but it also seriously fatigues the victorious immortal. The immortal remains in the Fatigued state until they have healed to 100% health.

Benefits of the Quickening: All benefits are based on the Current Quickening Points an immortal has.

Death & Resurrection: The time before they are Raised is reduced by ¼ (round up) per 5 Current Quickening points.
Electricity Resistance (Ex): Increases Electricity Resistance by +5 per 15 Current Quickening points.
Fast Healing: Increases next highest Fast Healing (X+1) per 10 Current Quickening points.
Sense Holy Ground: Increases by a 40 yard range for every 10 Current Quickening points.
Sense Quickening: Increases by 10' range for every 5 Current Quickening points.

In addition to increasing their Immortal abilities, Immortals also acquire knowledge and memories from their defeated foes.

Skills: Immortals gain 4 bonus skill points for each 5 Quickening Points acquired from an opponent they slay (round down). These skill points may only be applied to Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma skills that the previous immortal had ranks in.

Feats: Immortals gain 1 bonus feat from an opponent they slay. This feat is a random feat possessed by the slain immortal. If the opponent already has this feat, they acquire an improved version of the feat if it is available, or they gain nothing.


Saves: Same as the character.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: +2 Constitution
Immortals gain a +1 bonus to Constitution for each 15 Quickening points acquired as well as a +1 to Strength and Dexterity for every 30 Quickening points acquired.

Skills: Same as the character. Immortals gain bonus skill points based on age as well as quickening. For each 50 years of life the Immortal gains 6+INT bonus skill points to spend on any skills they know.

Feats: Same as the character. Immortals gain bonus feats based on age as well as quickening. For each 50 years of life the Immortal gains 1 bonus general feat.

Climate/Terrain: Same as the character.

Organization: Same as the character.

Challenge Rating/ECL: Same as the character +4.

Alignment: Same as the character. However, there is always the danger of a Light or Dark Quickening among immortals. Repeated Quickenings from an opposed alignment can have a profound effect on an Immortal’s alignment. Each time an immortal takes a Quickening from an immortal of an opposed alignment (in respect to Good and Evil) they must make a Will save (DC 10+1 per 20 Quickening points they have amassed in an opposed alignment). Failure indicates an alignment shift to the opposed alignment. To remove this alignment change, the Immortal must undergo a ritual similar to an Atonement, which will restore their alignment back to its original status.
(Example: Duncan (already having 50 Evil Quickening points) slays Kallas acquiring 10 more Evil Quickening points. Thus Duncan must make a Will save at DC 13 to avoid having his alignment change to Evil.)

Treasure: Same as the character.

Advancement: Same as the character.


Other Information of Note

The Watchers

"I am a Watcher, part of a secret society of men and women who observe ad record, but never interfere. We know the truth about Immortals. In the end there can be only one." - Joe Dawson

Description: A lawful good, secret organization, whose main objective is to keep records and histories on all supernatural creatures and events. The Watchers are divided into many different branches that oversee various supernatural events and creatures. There is a separate branch that specializes in recording the lives and events of the Immortals. This branch of the Watchers usually does not interfere with the events in an Immortals life or the Game; but from time to time, they have also been known to enforce the rules of the game. They prefer to remain in the background, observing and recording the events, but they will take action to protect the secrets they hold. The will also interfere with the game if the need arises. Now this "need" is open to interpretation and it could be used good as will as evil. The main headquarters for the Watchers, is based in Amsterdam, the Immortal branch is located in France.

History: The Watchers have some roots that go all the way back to the “Council” of Atlantis. After the fall, some of the survivors from Atlantis were scattered through out the world. A few members of the council were chosen to watch over those who were chosen to be sent forward to become Immortal. These members kept all the records on the “Game” and any other supernatural events. These records were stored at the great library at Alexandria. The library became the Watchers original main headquarters. Unfortunately, the forces of darkness destroyed the library at Alexandria, and all was lost and nothing remanded of the old records and events. So the true nature of the Immortals, (where they came from, and why they are here), was lost and forever forgotten. The Watchers did not appear again until the time of first Crusade near Leipzig, by a small group of knights. The knights found the chard remains of the library at Alexandria and began to reopen the lost knowledge of the past. This reawakening of knowledge brought the attention of the forces of darkness. A deadly war was fought to put an end to the knights and their findings. Many of the knights paid with their lives for the ancient knowledge. The knights that survive swore to avenge themselves and reorganized into a secret organization known as the “Watchers”. Their goal was to rid the world of the forces of darkness and once more record the events of the “Game”. The knights did not understand what part the Immortals played in world. It seemed that Immortals came in all forms of good, evil, and everything in-between. So they decided not to interfere with the “Game”, until it could understood fully. They took a vowed to only watch and record the lives and events of the ones called “Immortals”. The game must be watched over very carefully. If in the end, the minions of darkness win the final battle, humanity will suffer a great blow and darkness with triumph over the world. The Watchers try to keep accurate records on all the Immortals due to an old legend. The legend states that a “pure form of evil” will take on a physical form, once every 1000 years. Only an Immortal, (known as the chosen one), can defeat this supernatural being and return it back into remission. Which Immortal is the “Chosen One” remains unknown until after the “Great Evil” forms. If the forces of darkness were to win and defeat the chosen Immortal, they would gain the use of the fallen Immortal’s body and soul. The fallen Immortal would become an unstoppable force of evil.

Symbol: The symbol of the Immortal branch of the Watchers is a tattoo located on the left forearm and is used only in the Immortal branch. The various other branch orders also have their own unique symbol. The main symbol for the Watchers as a whole is a monocle with a rim of silver suspended from a fine silver chain. The immortal branch uses the attached symbol.

Membership: The original members of the Watchers were only knights and monks, but as time grew on, the need for people from all walks of life was also needed. The Watchers are made up from all cultures and time periods. Watches characters may be from any region, class, or background.

The Sanctuary
This is an area built on holy ground were an Immortal can retire from the game. The Watchers control and protect sanctuary and any Immortal is free to “drop out” of the game. The Immortals are sedated with drugs and restraints and kept under guard. This maybe considered brutal, but is sometimes the only peace an Immortal can have.
 
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Erekose said:
One perhaps off the wall thought - why not make the "Immortal" a prestige class for which experience can only be gained based on killing other Immortals? Gaining 1st level could occur as normal (i.e. after the first death) but experience towards subsequent levels would need to come from slaying other Immortals. This would give the character additional power from slaying Immortals in the traditional D&D sense (i.e. gaining levels).
I've not thought this through as it could cause all sorts of account keeping problems (i.e. gaining standard levels with standard experience points would make the experience needed for Immortal levels a moving feast!).

This would only work in a game where all you had were immortals. It would defeat the idea of keeping a standard D&D feel with an immortal style character. The idea is to blend an immortal into a standard style D&D Campaign, along the same idea as allowing a Vampire PC, etc.


Erekose said:
However, may be this makes even more sense. If Immortals can no longer gain ordinary experience points once they enter the Immortal PrC and can only gain experience to increase in levels from other Immortals it might explain why it they don't have 100 levels in standard classes due to living so long.

The problem with this is it does not hold consistency. Technically speaking most Elves live as long or longer than most immortals would. Why dont Elves at age 800+ have 200+ levels? Same for Dwarves at 400+ years.

The only way I really see an Immortal working is as a Template, similar to a Vampire (just a different form of immortality).
 


I don't know much about Highlander, but an immortal template sounds cool. The only thing I would say, is that ECL/CR should probably be affected by quickening points. Somebody with 100 of them is much stronger than somebody with none. Just my 2 coppers.
 

Ace32 said:
I don't know much about Highlander, but an immortal template sounds cool. The only thing I would say, is that ECL/CR should probably be affected by quickening points. Somebody with 100 of them is much stronger than somebody with none. Just my 2 coppers.

The problem with this concept is how do you actually do it?

If you say that at every X Quickening Points, the Immortal gains an additional ECL, you will run into 3 major problems that I see right off the top of my head.

1) What gain in the template beyond the original +$ ECL is worth another level?

2) What happens when they gain an ECL? Do you say they cannot level up when they have the experience to do so? Does their "Next Level Goal" suddenly increase to the level beyond what they were trying for?

3) You will end up with characters that are Technically Epic Level but still only have roughly 10-15 class levels.

Example:

50 Quickening Points =
Death & Resurrection: The time before they are Raised is reduced from 6 hours to 7 rounds.

Electricity Resistance: Electricity Resistance increases from ER 5 to ER 20.

Fast Healing: Increases from Fast Healing 1 to Fast Healing 5.

Sense Holy Ground: Increases from 120 yards to 320 yards.

Sense Quickening: Increases from 30' to 130' range.

Skills: Gains approximately 10-40 bonus skill points applied to Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma skills that the previous immortal had ranks in.

Feats: Immortals gain 1 bonus feat from an opponent they slay. This feat is a random feat possessed by the slain immortal. If the opponent already has this feat, they acquire an improved version of the feat if it is available, or they gain nothing.
Lets assume that at least 1/2 of the slain immortals gave feats so approximately 5 feats.

Abilities: Increase Constitution by +3 as well as Strength/Dexterity by +1.


So, say we set the incremental ECL to +1 per 50 Quickening Points.

What happens when Immartal A who is say 10th character level (a 6th level Fighter) hits 50 Quickening points?

He is now effectively an 11th level chatacter instantly and now needs 55,000 XP to become a 7th level Fighter?

Does this mechanic seem right? Does the 50 QP seem equal to a level? Should it be more or less?

Thanks!
 
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The only major problem I see with this system, other than the obvious bookeeping nightmares, is the Death and Resurrection part. Why force Immortals to lose a level and/or Constitution as if through Raise Dead? There is absolutely no basis for this in the series. Also, I haven't even once seen an Immortal take 6 hours to come back to life unless he died immediately after coming back to life. In fact, upon Richie's first death, it took him about a minute or two, and each subsequent time, it takes less time, depending on the nature of the wound, with worse wounds taking longer.

I would play it as, given that Immortals have fast healing, an immortal stays dead for one minute and then regains hit points normally with fast healing, waking up upon reaching positive numbers.

This is also a definite time to use my variant Constitution + Level death's door system where you die at a negative equal to Constitution + Level instead of -10 (this should already be the standard anyway seeing as it's far more logical than the current system).
 

Anubis said:
Why force Immortals to lose a level and/or Constitution as if through Raise Dead? There is absolutely no basis for this in the series. Also, I haven't even once seen an Immortal take 6 hours to come back to life unless he died immediately after coming back to life. In fact, upon Richie's first death, it took him about a minute or two, and each subsequent time, it takes less time, depending on the nature of the wound, with worse wounds taking longer.

I would play it as, given that Immortals have fast healing, an immortal stays dead for one minute and then regains hit points normally with fast healing, waking up upon reaching positive numbers.

This is also a definite time to use my variant Constitution + Level death's door system where you die at a negative equal to Constitution + Level instead of -10 (this should already be the standard anyway seeing as it's far more logical than the current system).

I agree. There should be no loss caused by revival. Perhaps a save similar to the Fort for nausea would be applicable, but there is no evidence of any sort of permanent damage or loss (other than neck wounds).

As for how long it takes to revive, that could be slightly randomized. It would be based, of course, on how bad the wound was, and how old the Immortal is, but there is also a randomness factor on the show. Perhaps some sort of roll to see how long it takes to revive, added on to a minimum calculated from age and wound severity. That, of course, could be what Anubis meant by his Con + Level bit (which I like, but I would have to see it in action to evaluate, I think).

On another note, when during the show was it revealed that Immortals can breathe underwater?
 

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